From bergstro2 at yahoo.com Sat Mar 22 23:53:12 2008 From: bergstro2 at yahoo.com (DB) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 20:53:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pnw-v15] Vanguard 15 wanted Message-ID: <44393.43639.qm@web31604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> A gentleman in Seattle contacted me and said that he was looking for a used V15. Anybody interested in selling their boat should contact me directly. Dean ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From bergstro2 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 23 00:03:18 2008 From: bergstro2 at yahoo.com (DB) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 21:03:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD NOR Message-ID: <929728.63842.qm@web31608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> See the attachment. If our mailing list server doesn't manage to attach the file, contact me directly and I'll send you a copy. Dean ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Seattle NOOD NOR.JPG Type: image/pjpeg Size: 424223 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bergstro2 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 23 00:05:08 2008 From: bergstro2 at yahoo.com (DB) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 21:05:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form Message-ID: <185478.90082.qm@web31603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Attached is the entry form for the Seattle NOOD. Can't wait to see everybody out there. Dean ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Seattle NOOD Entry Form.JPG Type: image/pjpeg Size: 229750 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hebardmf at myuw.net Sun Mar 23 02:58:54 2008 From: hebardmf at myuw.net (hebardmf at myuw.net) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 23:58:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form In-Reply-To: <185478.90082.qm@web31603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hmm. So the regatta entry fee for me is $135.00 b/c I'm not a US Sailing member....yet. Great. On Sat, 22 Mar 2008, DB wrote: > Attached is the entry form for the Seattle NOOD. Can't wait to see everybody out there. > > Dean > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From woodsong7 at centurytel.net Sun Mar 23 12:09:19 2008 From: woodsong7 at centurytel.net (B&B Thomas) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 09:09:19 -0700 Subject: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form References: Message-ID: <003101c88d00$41f8a5f0$0300a8c0@barbara6e45542> That kind of entry fee for a two day regatta will make it very difficult for high school sailors to participate Burke ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "DB" Cc: "PNW_V15" Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > Hmm. So the regatta entry fee for me is $135.00 b/c I'm not a US Sailing > member....yet. Great. > > > On Sat, 22 Mar 2008, DB wrote: > >> Attached is the entry form for the Seattle NOOD. Can't wait to see >> everybody out there. >> >> Dean >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. >> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > _______________________________________________ > Pnw-v15 mailing list > Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 > > From brianl at seattleyachtclub.org Sun Mar 23 12:14:41 2008 From: brianl at seattleyachtclub.org (Brian Ledbetter) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 09:14:41 -0700 Subject: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form In-Reply-To: References: <185478.90082.qm@web31603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002701c88d01$031e72f0$0802a8c0@BrianLD620> I think the entry fee for centerboard boats is $75. (19'and under in the selection list). Brian -----Original Message----- From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] On Behalf Of hebardmf at myuw.net Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:59 PM To: DB Cc: PNW_V15 Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form Hmm. So the regatta entry fee for me is $135.00 b/c I'm not a US Sailing member....yet. Great. On Sat, 22 Mar 2008, DB wrote: > Attached is the entry form for the Seattle NOOD. Can't wait to see everybody out there. > > Dean > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs _______________________________________________ Pnw-v15 mailing list Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 From bergstro2 at yahoo.com Sun Mar 23 15:45:31 2008 From: bergstro2 at yahoo.com (DB) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 12:45:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form Message-ID: <88508.95801.qm@web31605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I would like to explore alternative pricing. I am drafting a letter to the organizers expressing our concerns. I would like to offer pricing alternatives. There are a few points that are particularly troublesome. 1. US Sailing membership - At most regattas, US Sailing membership is not mandatory and can be applied towards a discount for those with membership. Here it works the other way around and introduces considerable expense. 2. 2 day pricing - It looks like the pricing schedule is for a 3 day event. 3. Youth pricing - I would like to see a discount for youth and HS sailors. I'm going to send it off tomorrow morning. If you have any suggestions, I would like to hear them. Dean ----- Original Message ---- From: B&B Thomas To: hebardmf at myuw.net; DB Cc: PNW_V15 Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:09:19 AM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form That kind of entry fee for a two day regatta will make it very difficult for high school sailors to participate Burke ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "DB" Cc: "PNW_V15" Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > Hmm. So the regatta entry fee for me is $135.00 b/c I'm not a US Sailing > member....yet. Great. > > > On Sat, 22 Mar 2008, DB wrote: > >> Attached is the entry form for the Seattle NOOD. Can't wait to see >> everybody out there. >> >> Dean >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. >> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > _______________________________________________ > Pnw-v15 mailing list > Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping From jim at lylegroup.com Mon Mar 24 00:10:47 2008 From: jim at lylegroup.com (Jim Lyle) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:10:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form Message-ID: <892368.27191.qm@web904.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dean, I understand your concern. However, a youth US Sailing membership is only $25 and only the skipper needs to apply. If the youth wants to sail in any US Sailing championship, including the local Junior Olympics in August they will need to be members. For a three day event that makes the entry and membership $100. No one would complain about 3 days of golf costing that much. It's certainly cheaper than 3 days of snow boarding. I'm not sure how you give 2 day pricing for a 3 day event. I'm not involved with planning the event at all. But 3 days on the water is not cheap and then throw in social events and $33 a day doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I find it hard to go out to dinner for $33 per person these days. I'm completely with you that cost is something we need to work on to promote our sport. But I'm afraid the days of $25 regattas have past - right along with gas under $2/gallon. Jim Lyle ----- Original Message ---- From: DB To: PNW_V15 Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 12:45:31 PM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form I would like to explore alternative pricing. I am drafting a letter to the organizers expressing our concerns. I would like to offer pricing alternatives. There are a few points that are particularly troublesome. 1. US Sailing membership - At most regattas, US Sailing membership is not mandatory and can be applied towards a discount for those with membership. Here it works the other way around and introduces considerable expense. 2. 2 day pricing - It looks like the pricing schedule is for a 3 day event. 3. Youth pricing - I would like to see a discount for youth and HS sailors. I'm going to send it off tomorrow morning. If you have any suggestions, I would like to hear them. Dean ----- Original Message ---- From: B&B Thomas To: hebardmf at myuw.net; DB Cc: PNW_V15 Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:09:19 AM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form That kind of entry fee for a two day regatta will make it very difficult for high school sailors to participate Burke ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "DB" Cc: "PNW_V15" Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > Hmm. So the regatta entry fee for me is $135.00 b/c I'm not a US Sailing > member....yet. Great. > > > On Sat, 22 Mar 2008, DB wrote: > >> Attached is the entry form for the Seattle NOOD. Can't wait to see >> everybody out there. >> >> Dean >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. >> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > _______________________________________________ > Pnw-v15 mailing list > Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping _______________________________________________ Pnw-v15 mailing list Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hebardmf at myuw.net Mon Mar 24 02:18:11 2008 From: hebardmf at myuw.net (hebardmf at myuw.net) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 23:18:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form In-Reply-To: <25CE2456453DEB4AB3D8A313E3D9CA260AF435A3@km6.kms.local> Message-ID: Uhh, did we need to be members to US Sailing for SOCKS last year? What about the CGRA One-Design? CYC Seattle One-Design? Turkey Bowl? If we did, I guess I owe someone some $$.... But all that is beside the point. Here's the real issue for "the fleet": Can the V15 fleet get 6 boats/skippers registered, who are members of US Sailing, prior to April 28th (after the 28th there is a $50 late fee so it becomes ridiculously expensive then) WITHOUT having to rely on High School Sailors to be some of the 6 boats? If the V15 fleet can, then MAYBE the V15s will have there own start. Or, maybe V15s will start with another fleet (Tasars) and be scored separately. If the V15ers want to be assured their own start, we need 10 boats registered. (This is all from the NOR, paragraph 3.2). So, try to name 10 V15ers who will do this regatta WITHOUT relying on the High School fleets (Orcas, Port Townsend, Central Kitsap, Bainbridge, Friday Harbor, Port Angeles)... 1) Dean B. 2) Peter S. 3) Zig B. 4)? 5)? 6)? 7)? 8)? 9)? 10)? Kinda hard, isn't it? I like Dean's approach: make it cheaper, somehow, for the High School kids. That may make it more likely a fleet will form in time. I frankly, don't know how many High School Sailors (i.e., those involved in the NWISA circuit) are members of US Sailing. Maybe there are more than I know, but I doubt it. I do know that it will be a tough sell to get some families to fork over $25 for the Youth US Sailing membership on top of an already hefty $75 entry fee for a TWO day event. (Read the NOR, centerboard fleets are Sat. & Sun.). This fleet relies on the High School crowd. We should advocate for them as well. -- Matt P.S. I'm looking for a ride on a Melges for the NOODS, anyone know of an open spot ;-) On Sun, 23 Mar 2008, Peter Shorett wrote: > Why the heck are you not a member? You need to be to sail in most > events. > > -----Original Message----- > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] > On Behalf Of hebardmf at myuw.net > Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:59 PM > To: DB > Cc: PNW_V15 > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > Hmm. So the regatta entry fee for me is $135.00 b/c I'm not a US > Sailing member....yet. Great. > > > On Sat, 22 Mar 2008, DB wrote: > >> Attached is the entry form for the Seattle NOOD. Can't wait to see > everybody out there. >> >> Dean >> >> >> > ________________________________________________________________________ > ____________ >> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. >> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > _______________________________________________ > Pnw-v15 mailing list > Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 > From bergstro2 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 24 06:10:53 2008 From: bergstro2 at yahoo.com (DB) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 03:10:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form Message-ID: <387116.92115.qm@web31608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> According to the NOR, and dialogs I've had with race organizers, the 2 day format from SOCKS was going to be retained for the centerboard classes in order to facilitate HS sailor schedules. Only keelboats would sail for 3 days. The fact that the prices don't reflect this fact strikes me as an oversight. Dean ----- Original Message ---- From: Jim Lyle To: DB ; PNW_V15 Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:10:47 PM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form Dean, I understand your concern. However, a youth US Sailing membership is only $25 and only the skipper needs to apply. If the youth wants to sail in any US Sailing championship, including the local Junior Olympics in August they will need to be members. For a three day event that makes the entry and membership $100. No one would complain about 3 days of golf costing that much. It's certainly cheaper than 3 days of snow boarding. I'm not sure how you give 2 day pricing for a 3 day event. I'm not involved with planning the event at all. But 3 days on the water is not cheap and then throw in social events and $33 a day doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I find it hard to go out to dinner for $33 per person these days. I'm completely with you that cost is something we need to work on to promote our sport. But I'm afraid the days of $25 regattas have past - right along with gas under $2/gallon. Jim Lyle ----- Original Message ---- From: DB To: PNW_V15 Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 12:45:31 PM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form I would like to explore alternative pricing. I am drafting a letter to the organizers expressing our concerns. I would like to offer pricing alternatives. There are a few points that are particularly troublesome. 1. US Sailing membership - At most regattas, US Sailing membership is not mandatory and can be applied towards a discount for those with membership. Here it works the other way around and introduces considerable expense. 2. 2 day pricing - It looks like the pricing schedule is for a 3 day event. 3. Youth pricing - I would like to see a discount for youth and HS sailors. I'm going to send it off tomorrow morning. If you have any suggestions, I would like to hear them. Dean ----- Original Message ---- From: B&B Thomas To: hebardmf at myuw.net; DB Cc: PNW_V15 Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:09:19 AM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form That kind of entry fee for a two day regatta will make it very difficult for high school sailors to participate Burke ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "DB" Cc: "PNW_V15" Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > Hmm. So the regatta entry fee for me is $135.00 b/c I'm not a US Sailing > member....yet. Great. > > > On Sat, 22 Mar 2008, DB wrote: > >> Attached is the entry form for the Seattle NOOD. Can't wait to see >> everybody out there. >> >> Dean >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. >> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > _______________________________________________ > Pnw-v15 mailing list > Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping _______________________________________________ Pnw-v15 mailing list Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From SteveT at cksd.wednet.edu Mon Mar 24 10:44:44 2008 From: SteveT at cksd.wednet.edu (Trunkey, Steve - CKJH) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 07:44:44 -0700 Subject: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form In-Reply-To: <387116.92115.qm@web31608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <387116.92115.qm@web31608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8789592E4638AB4A969D5E4662978B2907C7E45A@MAIL.cksd.wednet.edu> I believe Matt is correct. Speaking for the Central Kitsap Team, I would guess the difference would be somewhere between 0 and 6 boats from our program. If it's expensive and requires membership in US Sailing we likely won't be there. CK, like many of the high school programs, is a community based program. We have kids from modest upbringings that found even the $79 registration fee for 3 months of sailing expensive. Some of these kids will catch the sailing fever, become successful working adults, and eventually become leaders in the sailing community. For now, we should be drawing them into the sport and making it accessible. As for the social ticket - it looks like a good deal for me personally, but I'm not likely to take high school kids into the typical yacht club social setting. We would race and head home and eat from our brown bags. -----Original Message----- From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org ] On Behalf Of hebardmf at myuw.net Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:18 PM To: Peter Shorett Cc: pnw-v15 at myfleet.org Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form Uhh, did we need to be members to US Sailing for SOCKS last year? What about the CGRA One-Design? CYC Seattle One-Design? Turkey Bowl? If we did, I guess I owe someone some $$.... But all that is beside the point. Here's the real issue for "the fleet": Can the V15 fleet get 6 boats/skippers registered, who are members of US Sailing, prior to April 28th (after the 28th there is a $50 late fee so it becomes ridiculously expensive then) WITHOUT having to rely on High School Sailors to be some of the 6 boats? If the V15 fleet can, then MAYBE the V15s will have there own start. Or, maybe V15s will start with another fleet (Tasars) and be scored separately. If the V15ers want to be assured their own start, we need 10 boats registered. (This is all from the NOR, paragraph 3.2). So, try to name 10 V15ers who will do this regatta WITHOUT relying on the High School fleets (Orcas, Port Townsend, Central Kitsap, Bainbridge, Friday Harbor, Port Angeles)... 1) Dean B. 2) Peter S. 3) Zig B. 4)? 5)? 6)? 7)? 8)? 9)? 10)? Kinda hard, isn't it? I like Dean's approach: make it cheaper, somehow, for the High School kids. That may make it more likely a fleet will form in time. I frankly, don't know how many High School Sailors (i.e., those involved in the NWISA circuit) are members of US Sailing. Maybe there are more than I know, but I doubt it. I do know that it will be a tough sell to get some families to fork over $25 for the Youth US Sailing membership on top of an already hefty $75 entry fee for a TWO day event. (Read the NOR, centerboard fleets are Sat. & Sun.). This fleet relies on the High School crowd. We should advocate for them as well. ________________________________ From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] On Behalf Of DB Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:11 AM To: PNW_V15 Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form According to the NOR, and dialogs I've had with race organizers, the 2 day format from SOCKS was going to be retained for the centerboard classes in order to facilitate HS sailor schedules. Only keelboats would sail for 3 days. The fact that the prices don't reflect this fact strikes me as an oversight. Dean ----- Original Message ---- From: Jim Lyle To: DB ; PNW_V15 Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:10:47 PM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form Dean, I understand your concern. However, a youth US Sailing membership is only $25 and only the skipper needs to apply. If the youth wants to sail in any US Sailing championship, including the local Junior Olympics in August they will need to be members. For a three day event that makes the entry and membership $100. No one would complain about 3 days of golf costing that much. It's certainly cheaper than 3 days of snow boarding. I'm not sure how you give 2 day pricing for a 3 day event. I'm not involved with planning the event at all. But 3 days on the water is not cheap and then throw in social events and $33 a day doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I find it hard to go out to dinner for $33 per person these days. I'm completely with you that cost is something we need to work on to promote our sport. But I'm afraid the days of $25 regattas have past - right along with gas under $2/gallon. Jim Lyle ----- Original Message ---- From: DB To: PNW_V15 Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 12:45:31 PM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form I would like to explore alternative pricing. I am drafting a letter to the organizers expressing our concerns. I would like to offer pricing alternatives. There are a few points that are particularly troublesome. 1. US Sailing membership - At most regattas, US Sailing membership is not mandatory and can be applied towards a discount for those with membership. Here it works the other way around and introduces considerable expense. 2. 2 day pricing - It looks like the pricing schedule is for a 3 day event. 3. Youth pricing - I would like to see a discount for youth and HS sailors. I'm going to send it off tomorrow morning. If you have any suggestions, I would like to hear them. Dean ----- Original Message ---- From: B&B Thomas To: hebardmf at myuw.net; DB Cc: PNW_V15 Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:09:19 AM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form That kind of entry fee for a two day regatta will make it very difficult for high school sailors to participate Burke ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "DB" Cc: "PNW_V15" Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > Hmm. So the regatta entry fee for me is $135.00 b/c I'm not a US Sailing > member....yet. Great. > > > On Sat, 22 Mar 2008, DB wrote: > >> Attached is the entry form for the Seattle NOOD. Can't wait to see >> everybody out there. >> >> Dean >> >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________ ____________ >> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. >> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > _______________________________________________ > Pnw-v15 mailing list > Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 > > ________________________________________________________________________ ____________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping _______________________________________________ Pnw-v15 mailing list Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 ________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at lylegroup.com Mon Mar 24 10:47:04 2008 From: jim at lylegroup.com (Jim Lyle) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 07:47:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form Message-ID: <147837.14535.qm@web902.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yep - you're right. But under 19 feet is a full $25 less than the next size boat. For local fleets I think that covers all the centerboarders. It's a US Sailing sanctioned event. The other events below are not. The NW Junior Olympics will be at Matthews Beach this year and that event will require youth sailors to be US Sailing members as well so $25 gets both. Believe it or not centerboard regattas have less revenue potential than big boats. They require more support in the form of crash boats and they provide less revenue at the bar and on top of that the sailors tend to require more food. Most events just hope to break even on the little boats. I'm not saying $75 is cheap but entry fee for a V15 at Octoberfest was $40 per competitor for $80 total (different benefits included but in the same price range.) Jim ----- Original Message ---- From: DB To: PNW_V15 Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:10:53 AM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form According to the NOR, and dialogs I've had with race organizers, the 2 day format from SOCKS was going to be retained for the centerboard classes in order to facilitate HS sailor schedules. Only keelboats would sail for 3 days. The fact that the prices don't reflect this fact strikes me as an oversight. Dean ----- Original Message ---- From: Jim Lyle To: DB ; PNW_V15 Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:10:47 PM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form Dean, I understand your concern. However, a youth US Sailing membership is only $25 and only the skipper needs to apply. If the youth wants to sail in any US Sailing championship, including the local Junior Olympics in August they will need to be members. For a three day event that makes the entry and membership $100. No one would complain about 3 days of golf costing that much. It's certainly cheaper than 3 days of snow boarding. I'm not sure how you give 2 day pricing for a 3 day event. I'm not involved with planning the event at all. But 3 days on the water is not cheap and then throw in social events and $33 a day doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I find it hard to go out to dinner for $33 per person these days. I'm completely with you that cost is something we need to work on to promote our sport. But I'm afraid the days of $25 regattas have past - right along with gas under $2/gallon. Jim Lyle ----- Original Message ---- From: DB To: PNW_V15 Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 12:45:31 PM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form I would like to explore alternative pricing. I am drafting a letter to the organizers expressing our concerns. I would like to offer pricing alternatives. There are a few points that are particularly troublesome. 1. US Sailing membership - At most regattas, US Sailing membership is not mandatory and can be applied towards a discount for those with membership. Here it works the other way around and introduces considerable expense. 2. 2 day pricing - It looks like the pricing schedule is for a 3 day event. 3. Youth pricing - I would like to see a discount for youth and HS sailors. I'm going to send it off tomorrow morning. If you have any suggestions, I would like to hear them. Dean ----- Original Message ---- From: B&B Thomas To: hebardmf at myuw.net; DB Cc: PNW_V15 Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:09:19 AM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form That kind of entry fee for a two day regatta will make it very difficult for high school sailors to participate Burke ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "DB" Cc: "PNW_V15" Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > Hmm. So the regatta entry fee for me is $135.00 b/c I'm not a US Sailing > member....yet. Great. > > > On Sat, 22 Mar 2008, DB wrote: > >> Attached is the entry form for the Seattle NOOD. Can't wait to see >> everybody out there. >> >> Dean >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. >> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > _______________________________________________ > Pnw-v15 mailing list > Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping _______________________________________________ Pnw-v15 mailing list Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Pnw-v15 mailing list Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r_austin at verizon.net Mon Mar 24 09:48:20 2008 From: r_austin at verizon.net (r_austin at verizon.net) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 06:48:20 -0700 Subject: [Pnw-v15] unsubscribe Message-ID: <47E7B124.8000006@verizon.net> Sold my V-15. Thanx, Richard Austin. From pshorett at gvakm.com Mon Mar 24 12:15:18 2008 From: pshorett at gvakm.com (Peter Shorett) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:15:18 -0700 Subject: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form In-Reply-To: <8789592E4638AB4A969D5E4662978B2907C7E45A@MAIL.cksd.wednet.edu> References: <387116.92115.qm@web31608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8789592E4638AB4A969D5E4662978B2907C7E45A@MAIL.cksd.wednet.edu> Message-ID: <25CE2456453DEB4AB3D8A313E3D9CA260AF435DE@km6.kms.local> I am a little surprised that there is such negative discussion on this. The reason for encouraging teams to attend these types of events is to raise the level of competition - to expose sailors to a higher level of competition. Last year, we heavily promoted the V15 PCC's in the Gorge. There were 20+ boats, with some of the best sailors in the area competing and teams actually came up from California. Having been to several HS National Championships myself and watching our kids generally get clobbered (that's putting in mildly), teams in the NW District have to expand their sailing horizons' from their local level. There have been many great sailors pass through the ranks of the NW District; they have all become great sailors by participating in regattas that take them to the next level like NOOD (formerly SOCKS), Sears Cup, Bemis, Laser NA's, etc. Most all of your competition (every other HS outside of the NW District) is doing this and more. Many schools have full time paid coaches, year round sailing conditions and top cabin competition. Certainly the NW District sailing program is much better off in terms of regatta scheduling and clinics that it was 5 years ago, but if teams in the District HS do not continue to embrace a greater playing field, then development of the program will falter. If its about $$'s, then consider contacting your local yacht club for sponsorship (even if they are not a member), contact the Sailing Foundation (I bet they would be willing to sponsor a kid who finds the cost of entry prohibitive) or better yet, put it in your HS Sailing team budget. Hope to see you all there. And if you need a boat to sail, let me or Burke know, he has a trailer load of them. Peter ________________________________ From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] On Behalf Of Trunkey, Steve - CKJH Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 7:45 AM To: DB; PNW_V15 Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form I believe Matt is correct. Speaking for the Central Kitsap Team, I would guess the difference would be somewhere between 0 and 6 boats from our program. If it's expensive and requires membership in US Sailing we likely won't be there. CK, like many of the high school programs, is a community based program. We have kids from modest upbringings that found even the $79 registration fee for 3 months of sailing expensive. Some of these kids will catch the sailing fever, become successful working adults, and eventually become leaders in the sailing community. For now, we should be drawing them into the sport and making it accessible. As for the social ticket - it looks like a good deal for me personally, but I'm not likely to take high school kids into the typical yacht club social setting. We would race and head home and eat from our brown bags. -----Original Message----- From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org ] On Behalf Of hebardmf at myuw.net Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:18 PM To: Peter Shorett Cc: pnw-v15 at myfleet.org Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form Uhh, did we need to be members to US Sailing for SOCKS last year? What about the CGRA One-Design? CYC Seattle One-Design? Turkey Bowl? If we did, I guess I owe someone some $$.... But all that is beside the point. Here's the real issue for "the fleet": Can the V15 fleet get 6 boats/skippers registered, who are members of US Sailing, prior to April 28th (after the 28th there is a $50 late fee so it becomes ridiculously expensive then) WITHOUT having to rely on High School Sailors to be some of the 6 boats? If the V15 fleet can, then MAYBE the V15s will have there own start. Or, maybe V15s will start with another fleet (Tasars) and be scored separately. If the V15ers want to be assured their own start, we need 10 boats registered. (This is all from the NOR, paragraph 3.2). So, try to name 10 V15ers who will do this regatta WITHOUT relying on the High School fleets (Orcas, Port Townsend, Central Kitsap, Bainbridge, Friday Harbor, Port Angeles)... 1) Dean B. 2) Peter S. 3) Zig B. 4)? 5)? 6)? 7)? 8)? 9)? 10)? Kinda hard, isn't it? I like Dean's approach: make it cheaper, somehow, for the High School kids. That may make it more likely a fleet will form in time. I frankly, don't know how many High School Sailors (i.e., those involved in the NWISA circuit) are members of US Sailing. Maybe there are more than I know, but I doubt it. I do know that it will be a tough sell to get some families to fork over $25 for the Youth US Sailing membership on top of an already hefty $75 entry fee for a TWO day event. (Read the NOR, centerboard fleets are Sat. & Sun.). This fleet relies on the High School crowd. We should advocate for them as well. ________________________________ From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] On Behalf Of DB Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:11 AM To: PNW_V15 Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form According to the NOR, and dialogs I've had with race organizers, the 2 day format from SOCKS was going to be retained for the centerboard classes in order to facilitate HS sailor schedules. Only keelboats would sail for 3 days. The fact that the prices don't reflect this fact strikes me as an oversight. Dean ----- Original Message ---- From: Jim Lyle To: DB ; PNW_V15 Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:10:47 PM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form Dean, I understand your concern. However, a youth US Sailing membership is only $25 and only the skipper needs to apply. If the youth wants to sail in any US Sailing championship, including the local Junior Olympics in August they will need to be members. For a three day event that makes the entry and membership $100. No one would complain about 3 days of golf costing that much. It's certainly cheaper than 3 days of snow boarding. I'm not sure how you give 2 day pricing for a 3 day event. I'm not involved with planning the event at all. But 3 days on the water is not cheap and then throw in social events and $33 a day doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I find it hard to go out to dinner for $33 per person these days. I'm completely with you that cost is something we need to work on to promote our sport. But I'm afraid the days of $25 regattas have past - right along with gas under $2/gallon. Jim Lyle ----- Original Message ---- From: DB To: PNW_V15 Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 12:45:31 PM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form I would like to explore alternative pricing. I am drafting a letter to the organizers expressing our concerns. I would like to offer pricing alternatives. There are a few points that are particularly troublesome. 1. US Sailing membership - At most regattas, US Sailing membership is not mandatory and can be applied towards a discount for those with membership. Here it works the other way around and introduces considerable expense. 2. 2 day pricing - It looks like the pricing schedule is for a 3 day event. 3. Youth pricing - I would like to see a discount for youth and HS sailors. I'm going to send it off tomorrow morning. If you have any suggestions, I would like to hear them. Dean ----- Original Message ---- From: B&B Thomas To: hebardmf at myuw.net; DB Cc: PNW_V15 Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:09:19 AM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form That kind of entry fee for a two day regatta will make it very difficult for high school sailors to participate Burke ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "DB" Cc: "PNW_V15" Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > Hmm. So the regatta entry fee for me is $135.00 b/c I'm not a US Sailing > member....yet. Great. > > > On Sat, 22 Mar 2008, DB wrote: > >> Attached is the entry form for the Seattle NOOD. Can't wait to see >> everybody out there. >> >> Dean >> >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________ ____________ >> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. >> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > _______________________________________________ > Pnw-v15 mailing list > Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 > > ________________________________________________________________________ ____________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping _______________________________________________ Pnw-v15 mailing list Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 ________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From SteveT at cksd.wednet.edu Mon Mar 24 13:11:39 2008 From: SteveT at cksd.wednet.edu (Trunkey, Steve - CKJH) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 10:11:39 -0700 Subject: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form In-Reply-To: <25CE2456453DEB4AB3D8A313E3D9CA260AF435DE@km6.kms.local> References: <387116.92115.qm@web31608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8789592E4638AB4A969D5E4662978B2907C7E45A@MAIL.cksd.wednet.edu> <25CE2456453DEB4AB3D8A313E3D9CA260AF435DE@km6.kms.local> Message-ID: <8789592E4638AB4A969D5E4662978B2907C7E45E@MAIL.cksd.wednet.edu> It seems maybe some further clarification might be useful. My comments are not negativity, but rather just reflecting where our program and several others are at this point. We are not affiliated with any yacht club or other wealthy organization, and our kids are typically raw beginners who have come to our program as teenagers with no previous sailing experience. So, a student who stepped into a boat for the first time in their lives three weeks ago doesn't have National Championships, US Sailing membership, and competing against year round programs with paid coaches in mind. I think it's great that those opportunities are out there for kids, but we aren't there yet. However, I think we should want to expand the sport so that kids like ours might ultimately get there - maybe at the collegiate level and then someday buying their own boat, etc. That means opening the "higher level of competition" up to all kids. Maybe if we really want them to have membership in US Sailing we could make the total fee for this regatta $25 for high school sailors and they could come away with both the experience of high level competition and membership in the organization. Know also that operating a community based sailing program takes hundreds of hours already, so every added complication such as raising funds for one regatta, represents a formidable challenge. ________________________________ From: Peter Shorett [mailto:pshorett at gvakm.com] Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 9:15 AM To: Trunkey, Steve - CKJH; DB; PNW_V15 Subject: RE: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form I am a little surprised that there is such negative discussion on this. The reason for encouraging teams to attend these types of events is to raise the level of competition - to expose sailors to a higher level of competition. Last year, we heavily promoted the V15 PCC's in the Gorge. There were 20+ boats, with some of the best sailors in the area competing and teams actually came up from California. Having been to several HS National Championships myself and watching our kids generally get clobbered (that's putting in mildly), teams in the NW District have to expand their sailing horizons' from their local level. There have been many great sailors pass through the ranks of the NW District; they have all become great sailors by participating in regattas that take them to the next level like NOOD (formerly SOCKS), Sears Cup, Bemis, Laser NA's, etc. Most all of your competition (every other HS outside of the NW District) is doing this and more. Many schools have full time paid coaches, year round sailing conditions and top cabin competition. Certainly the NW District sailing program is much better off in terms of regatta scheduling and clinics that it was 5 years ago, but if teams in the District HS do not continue to embrace a greater playing field, then development of the program will falter. If its about $$'s, then consider contacting your local yacht club for sponsorship (even if they are not a member), contact the Sailing Foundation (I bet they would be willing to sponsor a kid who finds the cost of entry prohibitive) or better yet, put it in your HS Sailing team budget. Hope to see you all there. And if you need a boat to sail, let me or Burke know, he has a trailer load of them. Peter ________________________________ From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] On Behalf Of Trunkey, Steve - CKJH Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 7:45 AM To: DB; PNW_V15 Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form I believe Matt is correct. Speaking for the Central Kitsap Team, I would guess the difference would be somewhere between 0 and 6 boats from our program. If it's expensive and requires membership in US Sailing we likely won't be there. CK, like many of the high school programs, is a community based program. We have kids from modest upbringings that found even the $79 registration fee for 3 months of sailing expensive. Some of these kids will catch the sailing fever, become successful working adults, and eventually become leaders in the sailing community. For now, we should be drawing them into the sport and making it accessible. As for the social ticket - it looks like a good deal for me personally, but I'm not likely to take high school kids into the typical yacht club social setting. We would race and head home and eat from our brown bags. -----Original Message----- From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org ] On Behalf Of hebardmf at myuw.net Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:18 PM To: Peter Shorett Cc: pnw-v15 at myfleet.org Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form Uhh, did we need to be members to US Sailing for SOCKS last year? What about the CGRA One-Design? CYC Seattle One-Design? Turkey Bowl? If we did, I guess I owe someone some $$.... But all that is beside the point. Here's the real issue for "the fleet": Can the V15 fleet get 6 boats/skippers registered, who are members of US Sailing, prior to April 28th (after the 28th there is a $50 late fee so it becomes ridiculously expensive then) WITHOUT having to rely on High School Sailors to be some of the 6 boats? If the V15 fleet can, then MAYBE the V15s will have there own start. Or, maybe V15s will start with another fleet (Tasars) and be scored separately. If the V15ers want to be assured their own start, we need 10 boats registered. (This is all from the NOR, paragraph 3.2). So, try to name 10 V15ers who will do this regatta WITHOUT relying on the High School fleets (Orcas, Port Townsend, Central Kitsap, Bainbridge, Friday Harbor, Port Angeles)... 1) Dean B. 2) Peter S. 3) Zig B. 4)? 5)? 6)? 7)? 8)? 9)? 10)? Kinda hard, isn't it? I like Dean's approach: make it cheaper, somehow, for the High School kids. That may make it more likely a fleet will form in time. I frankly, don't know how many High School Sailors (i.e., those involved in the NWISA circuit) are members of US Sailing. Maybe there are more than I know, but I doubt it. I do know that it will be a tough sell to get some families to fork over $25 for the Youth US Sailing membership on top of an already hefty $75 entry fee for a TWO day event. (Read the NOR, centerboard fleets are Sat. & Sun.). This fleet relies on the High School crowd. We should advocate for them as well. ________________________________ From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] On Behalf Of DB Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:11 AM To: PNW_V15 Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form According to the NOR, and dialogs I've had with race organizers, the 2 day format from SOCKS was going to be retained for the centerboard classes in order to facilitate HS sailor schedules. Only keelboats would sail for 3 days. The fact that the prices don't reflect this fact strikes me as an oversight. Dean ----- Original Message ---- From: Jim Lyle To: DB ; PNW_V15 Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:10:47 PM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form Dean, I understand your concern. However, a youth US Sailing membership is only $25 and only the skipper needs to apply. If the youth wants to sail in any US Sailing championship, including the local Junior Olympics in August they will need to be members. For a three day event that makes the entry and membership $100. No one would complain about 3 days of golf costing that much. It's certainly cheaper than 3 days of snow boarding. I'm not sure how you give 2 day pricing for a 3 day event. I'm not involved with planning the event at all. But 3 days on the water is not cheap and then throw in social events and $33 a day doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I find it hard to go out to dinner for $33 per person these days. I'm completely with you that cost is something we need to work on to promote our sport. But I'm afraid the days of $25 regattas have past - right along with gas under $2/gallon. Jim Lyle ----- Original Message ---- From: DB To: PNW_V15 Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 12:45:31 PM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form I would like to explore alternative pricing. I am drafting a letter to the organizers expressing our concerns. I would like to offer pricing alternatives. There are a few points that are particularly troublesome. 1. US Sailing membership - At most regattas, US Sailing membership is not mandatory and can be applied towards a discount for those with membership. Here it works the other way around and introduces considerable expense. 2. 2 day pricing - It looks like the pricing schedule is for a 3 day event. 3. Youth pricing - I would like to see a discount for youth and HS sailors. I'm going to send it off tomorrow morning. If you have any suggestions, I would like to hear them. Dean ----- Original Message ---- From: B&B Thomas To: hebardmf at myuw.net; DB Cc: PNW_V15 Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:09:19 AM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form That kind of entry fee for a two day regatta will make it very difficult for high school sailors to participate Burke ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "DB" Cc: "PNW_V15" Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > Hmm. So the regatta entry fee for me is $135.00 b/c I'm not a US Sailing > member....yet. Great. > > > On Sat, 22 Mar 2008, DB wrote: > >> Attached is the entry form for the Seattle NOOD. Can't wait to see >> everybody out there. >> >> Dean >> >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________ ____________ >> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. >> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > _______________________________________________ > Pnw-v15 mailing list > Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 > > ________________________________________________________________________ ____________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping _______________________________________________ Pnw-v15 mailing list Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 ________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hebardmf at myuw.net Mon Mar 24 14:43:46 2008 From: hebardmf at myuw.net (hebardmf at myuw.net) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:43:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form In-Reply-To: <8789592E4638AB4A969D5E4662978B2907C7E45E@MAIL.cksd.wednet.edu> Message-ID: Well said by Steve. I suspect the Port Townsend and Port Angeles fleets have the same sentiments. We still don't have the immediate question answered: Are there 10 (or 6) V15s that will register for this, excluding the High School Programs as part of the 10 (or 6)? Maybe 6, probably not 10. I wonder if a NOOD V15 fleet can form without enlisting the help of the High School Programs. -- Matt On Mon, 24 Mar 2008, Trunkey, Steve - CKJH wrote: > It seems maybe some further clarification might be useful. My comments > are not negativity, but rather just reflecting where our program and > several others are at this point. We are not affiliated with any yacht > club or other wealthy organization, and our kids are typically raw > beginners who have come to our program as teenagers with no previous > sailing experience. So, a student who stepped into a boat for the first > time in their lives three weeks ago doesn't have National Championships, > US Sailing membership, and competing against year round programs with > paid coaches in mind. > > I think it's great that those opportunities are out there for kids, but > we aren't there yet. > > However, I think we should want to expand the sport so that kids like > ours might ultimately get there - maybe at the collegiate level and then > someday buying their own boat, etc. That means opening the "higher > level of competition" up to all kids. Maybe if we really want them to > have membership in US Sailing we could make the total fee for this > regatta $25 for high school sailors and they could come away with both > the experience of high level competition and membership in the > organization. Know also that operating a community based sailing > program takes hundreds of hours already, so every added complication > such as raising funds for one regatta, represents a formidable > challenge. > > ________________________________ > > From: Peter Shorett [mailto:pshorett at gvakm.com] > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 9:15 AM > To: Trunkey, Steve - CKJH; DB; PNW_V15 > Subject: RE: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > > > I am a little surprised that there is such negative discussion on this. > > > > > The reason for encouraging teams to attend these types of events is to > raise the level of competition - to expose sailors to a higher level of > competition. Last year, we heavily promoted the V15 PCC's in the Gorge. > There were 20+ boats, with some of the best sailors in the area > competing and teams actually came up from California. > > > > Having been to several HS National Championships myself and watching our > kids generally get clobbered (that's putting in mildly), teams in the NW > District have to expand their sailing horizons' from their local level. > There have been many great sailors pass through the ranks of the NW > District; they have all become great sailors by participating in > regattas that take them to the next level like NOOD (formerly SOCKS), > Sears Cup, Bemis, Laser NA's, etc. > > > > Most all of your competition (every other HS outside of the NW District) > is doing this and more. Many schools have full time paid coaches, year > round sailing conditions and top cabin competition. Certainly the NW > District sailing program is much better off in terms of regatta > scheduling and clinics that it was 5 years ago, but if teams in the > District HS do not continue to embrace a greater playing field, then > development of the program will falter. > > > > If its about $$'s, then consider contacting your local yacht club for > sponsorship (even if they are not a member), contact the Sailing > Foundation (I bet they would be willing to sponsor a kid who finds the > cost of entry prohibitive) or better yet, put it in your HS Sailing team > budget. > > > > Hope to see you all there. And if you need a boat to sail, let me or > Burke know, he has a trailer load of them. > > > > Peter > > > > ________________________________ > > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] > On Behalf Of Trunkey, Steve - CKJH > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 7:45 AM > To: DB; PNW_V15 > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > > > I believe Matt is correct. Speaking for the Central Kitsap Team, I would > guess the difference would be somewhere between 0 and 6 boats from our > program. If it's expensive and requires membership in US Sailing we > likely won't be there. CK, like many of the high school programs, is a > community based program. We have kids from modest upbringings that > found even the $79 registration fee for 3 months of sailing expensive. > Some of these kids will catch the sailing fever, become successful > working adults, and eventually become leaders in the sailing community. > For now, we should be drawing them into the sport and making it > accessible. > > As for the social ticket - it looks like a good deal for me personally, > but I'm not likely to take high school kids into the typical yacht club > social setting. We would race and head home and eat from our brown > bags. > > -----Original Message----- > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org > ] On Behalf Of hebardmf at myuw.net > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:18 PM > To: Peter Shorett > Cc: pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > Uhh, did we need to be members to US Sailing for SOCKS last year? What > about the CGRA One-Design? CYC Seattle One-Design? Turkey Bowl? If we > did, I guess I owe someone some $$.... But all that is beside the point. > Here's the real issue for "the fleet": > > Can the V15 fleet get 6 boats/skippers registered, who are members of US > Sailing, prior to April 28th (after the 28th there is a $50 late fee so > it becomes ridiculously expensive then) WITHOUT having to rely on High > School Sailors to be some of the 6 boats? If the V15 fleet can, then > MAYBE the V15s will have there own start. Or, maybe V15s will start with > another fleet (Tasars) and be scored separately. If the V15ers want to > be assured their own start, we need 10 boats registered. (This is all > from the NOR, paragraph 3.2). So, try to name 10 V15ers who will do this > regatta WITHOUT relying on the High School fleets (Orcas, Port Townsend, > Central Kitsap, Bainbridge, Friday Harbor, Port Angeles)... > > 1) Dean B. > 2) Peter S. > 3) Zig B. > 4)? > 5)? > 6)? > 7)? > 8)? > 9)? > 10)? > > Kinda hard, isn't it? I like Dean's approach: make it cheaper, somehow, > for the High School kids. That may make it more likely a fleet will form > in time. I frankly, don't know how many High School Sailors (i.e., those > involved in the NWISA circuit) are members of US Sailing. Maybe there > are more than I know, but I doubt it. I do know that it will be a tough > sell to get some families to fork over $25 for the Youth US Sailing > membership on top of an already hefty $75 entry fee for a TWO day event. > (Read the NOR, centerboard fleets are Sat. & Sun.). > > This fleet relies on the High School crowd. We should advocate for them > as well. > > > > ________________________________ > > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] > On Behalf Of DB > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:11 AM > To: PNW_V15 > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > According to the NOR, and dialogs I've had with race organizers, the 2 > day format from SOCKS was going to be retained for the centerboard > classes in order to facilitate HS sailor schedules. Only keelboats > would sail for 3 days. The fact that the prices don't reflect this fact > strikes me as an oversight. > > > > Dean > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Jim Lyle > To: DB ; PNW_V15 > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:10:47 PM > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > Dean, > > I understand your concern. However, a youth US Sailing membership is > only $25 and only the skipper needs to apply. If the youth wants to sail > in any US Sailing championship, including the local Junior Olympics in > August they will need to be members. For a three day event that makes > the entry and membership $100. No one would complain about 3 days of > golf costing that much. It's certainly cheaper than 3 days of snow > boarding. I'm not sure how you give 2 day pricing for a 3 day event. > > I'm not involved with planning the event at all. But 3 days on the water > is not cheap and then throw in social events and $33 a day doesn't seem > unreasonable to me. I find it hard to go out to dinner for $33 per > person these days. > > I'm completely with you that cost is something we need to work on to > promote our sport. But I'm afraid the days of $25 regattas have past - > right along with gas under $2/gallon. > > Jim Lyle > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: DB > To: PNW_V15 > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 12:45:31 PM > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > I would like to explore alternative pricing. I am drafting a letter to > the organizers expressing our concerns. I would like to offer pricing > alternatives. There are a few points that are particularly troublesome. > > 1. US Sailing membership - At most regattas, US Sailing membership is > not mandatory and can be applied towards a discount for those with > membership. Here it works the other way around and introduces > considerable expense. > 2. 2 day pricing - It looks like the pricing schedule is for a 3 day > event. > 3. Youth pricing - I would like to see a discount for youth and HS > sailors. > > I'm going to send it off tomorrow morning. If you have any suggestions, > I would like to hear them. > > Dean > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: B&B Thomas > To: hebardmf at myuw.net; DB > Cc: PNW_V15 > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:09:19 AM > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > That kind of entry fee for a two day regatta will make it very > difficult > for high school sailors to participate > Burke > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "DB" > Cc: "PNW_V15" > Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:58 PM > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > >> Hmm. So the regatta entry fee for me is $135.00 b/c I'm not a US > Sailing >> member....yet. Great. >> >> >> On Sat, 22 Mar 2008, DB wrote: >> >>> Attached is the entry form for the Seattle NOOD. Can't wait to see >>> everybody out there. >>> >>> Dean >>> >>> >>> >>> > ________________________________________________________________________ > ____________ >>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. >>> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pnw-v15 mailing list >> Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org >> http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ____________ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping > _______________________________________________ > Pnw-v15 mailing list > Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try > it now. > sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20> > > From bergstro2 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 24 14:57:04 2008 From: bergstro2 at yahoo.com (DB) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form Message-ID: <726146.50556.qm@web31608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm sure it comes as no surprise that I'm still looking forward to the event and am ready to sign up. Dean ----- Original Message ---- From: "hebardmf at myuw.net" To: "Trunkey, Steve - CKJH" Cc: Peter Shorett ; DB ; PNW_V15 Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:43:46 AM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form Well said by Steve. I suspect the Port Townsend and Port Angeles fleets have the same sentiments. We still don't have the immediate question answered: Are there 10 (or 6) V15s that will register for this, excluding the High School Programs as part of the 10 (or 6)? Maybe 6, probably not 10. I wonder if a NOOD V15 fleet can form without enlisting the help of the High School Programs. -- Matt On Mon, 24 Mar 2008, Trunkey, Steve - CKJH wrote: > It seems maybe some further clarification might be useful. My comments > are not negativity, but rather just reflecting where our program and > several others are at this point. We are not affiliated with any yacht > club or other wealthy organization, and our kids are typically raw > beginners who have come to our program as teenagers with no previous > sailing experience. So, a student who stepped into a boat for the first > time in their lives three weeks ago doesn't have National Championships, > US Sailing membership, and competing against year round programs with > paid coaches in mind. > > I think it's great that those opportunities are out there for kids, but > we aren't there yet. > > However, I think we should want to expand the sport so that kids like > ours might ultimately get there - maybe at the collegiate level and then > someday buying their own boat, etc. That means opening the "higher > level of competition" up to all kids. Maybe if we really want them to > have membership in US Sailing we could make the total fee for this > regatta $25 for high school sailors and they could come away with both > the experience of high level competition and membership in the > organization. Know also that operating a community based sailing > program takes hundreds of hours already, so every added complication > such as raising funds for one regatta, represents a formidable > challenge. > > ________________________________ > > From: Peter Shorett [mailto:pshorett at gvakm.com] > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 9:15 AM > To: Trunkey, Steve - CKJH; DB; PNW_V15 > Subject: RE: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > > > I am a little surprised that there is such negative discussion on this. > > > > > The reason for encouraging teams to attend these types of events is to > raise the level of competition - to expose sailors to a higher level of > competition. Last year, we heavily promoted the V15 PCC's in the Gorge. > There were 20+ boats, with some of the best sailors in the area > competing and teams actually came up from California. > > > > Having been to several HS National Championships myself and watching our > kids generally get clobbered (that's putting in mildly), teams in the NW > District have to expand their sailing horizons' from their local level. > There have been many great sailors pass through the ranks of the NW > District; they have all become great sailors by participating in > regattas that take them to the next level like NOOD (formerly SOCKS), > Sears Cup, Bemis, Laser NA's, etc. > > > > Most all of your competition (every other HS outside of the NW District) > is doing this and more. Many schools have full time paid coaches, year > round sailing conditions and top cabin competition. Certainly the NW > District sailing program is much better off in terms of regatta > scheduling and clinics that it was 5 years ago, but if teams in the > District HS do not continue to embrace a greater playing field, then > development of the program will falter. > > > > If its about $$'s, then consider contacting your local yacht club for > sponsorship (even if they are not a member), contact the Sailing > Foundation (I bet they would be willing to sponsor a kid who finds the > cost of entry prohibitive) or better yet, put it in your HS Sailing team > budget. > > > > Hope to see you all there. And if you need a boat to sail, let me or > Burke know, he has a trailer load of them. > > > > Peter > > > > ________________________________ > > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] > On Behalf Of Trunkey, Steve - CKJH > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 7:45 AM > To: DB; PNW_V15 > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > > > I believe Matt is correct. Speaking for the Central Kitsap Team, I would > guess the difference would be somewhere between 0 and 6 boats from our > program. If it's expensive and requires membership in US Sailing we > likely won't be there. CK, like many of the high school programs, is a > community based program. We have kids from modest upbringings that > found even the $79 registration fee for 3 months of sailing expensive. > Some of these kids will catch the sailing fever, become successful > working adults, and eventually become leaders in the sailing community. > For now, we should be drawing them into the sport and making it > accessible. > > As for the social ticket - it looks like a good deal for me personally, > but I'm not likely to take high school kids into the typical yacht club > social setting. We would race and head home and eat from our brown > bags. > > -----Original Message----- > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org > ] On Behalf Of hebardmf at myuw.net > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:18 PM > To: Peter Shorett > Cc: pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > Uhh, did we need to be members to US Sailing for SOCKS last year? What > about the CGRA One-Design? CYC Seattle One-Design? Turkey Bowl? If we > did, I guess I owe someone some $$.... But all that is beside the point. > Here's the real issue for "the fleet": > > Can the V15 fleet get 6 boats/skippers registered, who are members of US > Sailing, prior to April 28th (after the 28th there is a $50 late fee so > it becomes ridiculously expensive then) WITHOUT having to rely on High > School Sailors to be some of the 6 boats? If the V15 fleet can, then > MAYBE the V15s will have there own start. Or, maybe V15s will start with > another fleet (Tasars) and be scored separately. If the V15ers want to > be assured their own start, we need 10 boats registered. (This is all > from the NOR, paragraph 3.2). So, try to name 10 V15ers who will do this > regatta WITHOUT relying on the High School fleets (Orcas, Port Townsend, > Central Kitsap, Bainbridge, Friday Harbor, Port Angeles)... > > 1) Dean B. > 2) Peter S. > 3) Zig B. > 4)? > 5)? > 6)? > 7)? > 8)? > 9)? > 10)? > > Kinda hard, isn't it? I like Dean's approach: make it cheaper, somehow, > for the High School kids. That may make it more likely a fleet will form > in time. I frankly, don't know how many High School Sailors (i.e., those > involved in the NWISA circuit) are members of US Sailing. Maybe there > are more than I know, but I doubt it. I do know that it will be a tough > sell to get some families to fork over $25 for the Youth US Sailing > membership on top of an already hefty $75 entry fee for a TWO day event. > (Read the NOR, centerboard fleets are Sat. & Sun.). > > This fleet relies on the High School crowd. We should advocate for them > as well. > > > > ________________________________ > > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] > On Behalf Of DB > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:11 AM > To: PNW_V15 > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > According to the NOR, and dialogs I've had with race organizers, the 2 > day format from SOCKS was going to be retained for the centerboard > classes in order to facilitate HS sailor schedules. Only keelboats > would sail for 3 days. The fact that the prices don't reflect this fact > strikes me as an oversight. > > > > Dean > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Jim Lyle > To: DB ; PNW_V15 > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:10:47 PM > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > Dean, > > I understand your concern. However, a youth US Sailing membership is > only $25 and only the skipper needs to apply. If the youth wants to sail > in any US Sailing championship, including the local Junior Olympics in > August they will need to be members. For a three day event that makes > the entry and membership $100. No one would complain about 3 days of > golf costing that much. It's certainly cheaper than 3 days of snow > boarding. I'm not sure how you give 2 day pricing for a 3 day event. > > I'm not involved with planning the event at all. But 3 days on the water > is not cheap and then throw in social events and $33 a day doesn't seem > unreasonable to me. I find it hard to go out to dinner for $33 per > person these days. > > I'm completely with you that cost is something we need to work on to > promote our sport. But I'm afraid the days of $25 regattas have past - > right along with gas under $2/gallon. > > Jim Lyle > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: DB > To: PNW_V15 > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 12:45:31 PM > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > I would like to explore alternative pricing. I am drafting a letter to > the organizers expressing our concerns. I would like to offer pricing > alternatives. There are a few points that are particularly troublesome. > > 1. US Sailing membership - At most regattas, US Sailing membership is > not mandatory and can be applied towards a discount for those with > membership. Here it works the other way around and introduces > considerable expense. > 2. 2 day pricing - It looks like the pricing schedule is for a 3 day > event. > 3. Youth pricing - I would like to see a discount for youth and HS > sailors. > > I'm going to send it off tomorrow morning. If you have any suggestions, > I would like to hear them. > > Dean > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: B&B Thomas > To: hebardmf at myuw.net; DB > Cc: PNW_V15 > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:09:19 AM > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > That kind of entry fee for a two day regatta will make it very > difficult > for high school sailors to participate > Burke > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "DB" > Cc: "PNW_V15" > Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:58 PM > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > >> Hmm. So the regatta entry fee for me is $135.00 b/c I'm not a US > Sailing >> member....yet. Great. >> >> >> On Sat, 22 Mar 2008, DB wrote: >> >>> Attached is the entry form for the Seattle NOOD. Can't wait to see >>> everybody out there. >>> >>> Dean >>> >>> >>> >>> > ________________________________________________________________________ > ____________ >>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. >>> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pnw-v15 mailing list >> Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org >> http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ____________ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping > _______________________________________________ > Pnw-v15 mailing list > Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try > it now. > sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20> > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping From John at msreal.com Mon Mar 24 15:53:31 2008 From: John at msreal.com (John Schalka) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 12:53:31 -0700 Subject: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form In-Reply-To: <726146.50556.qm@web31608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <726146.50556.qm@web31608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <32C2F0BAA99C164E9D3A64EA9668FE78C1486E@ms-2003.ms.local> I cannot help stepping in here. I happened to be at the meeting where the fees were set and I know a lot of thought was put into trying to keep them contained for the centerboard classes. It happens that NOOD is a for profit organization so our control was limited relative to the previous SOCKS regatta. Still, I think the fees are generally reasonable for a high level event. I agree with Peter that this would be a good experience for anyone interested in sailing. John Schalka -----Original Message----- From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] On Behalf Of DB Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:57 AM To: PNW_V15 Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form I'm sure it comes as no surprise that I'm still looking forward to the event and am ready to sign up. Dean ----- Original Message ---- From: "hebardmf at myuw.net" To: "Trunkey, Steve - CKJH" Cc: Peter Shorett ; DB ; PNW_V15 Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:43:46 AM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form Well said by Steve. I suspect the Port Townsend and Port Angeles fleets have the same sentiments. We still don't have the immediate question answered: Are there 10 (or 6) V15s that will register for this, excluding the High School Programs as part of the 10 (or 6)? Maybe 6, probably not 10. I wonder if a NOOD V15 fleet can form without enlisting the help of the High School Programs. -- Matt On Mon, 24 Mar 2008, Trunkey, Steve - CKJH wrote: > It seems maybe some further clarification might be useful. My > comments are not negativity, but rather just reflecting where our > program and several others are at this point. We are not affiliated > with any yacht club or other wealthy organization, and our kids are > typically raw beginners who have come to our program as teenagers with > no previous sailing experience. So, a student who stepped into a boat > for the first time in their lives three weeks ago doesn't have > National Championships, US Sailing membership, and competing against > year round programs with paid coaches in mind. > > I think it's great that those opportunities are out there for kids, > but we aren't there yet. > > However, I think we should want to expand the sport so that kids like > ours might ultimately get there - maybe at the collegiate level and > then someday buying their own boat, etc. That means opening the > "higher level of competition" up to all kids. Maybe if we really want > them to have membership in US Sailing we could make the total fee for > this regatta $25 for high school sailors and they could come away with > both the experience of high level competition and membership in the > organization. Know also that operating a community based sailing > program takes hundreds of hours already, so every added complication > such as raising funds for one regatta, represents a formidable > challenge. > > ________________________________ > > From: Peter Shorett [mailto:pshorett at gvakm.com] > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 9:15 AM > To: Trunkey, Steve - CKJH; DB; PNW_V15 > Subject: RE: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > > > I am a little surprised that there is such negative discussion on this. > > > > > The reason for encouraging teams to attend these types of events is to > raise the level of competition - to expose sailors to a higher level > of competition. Last year, we heavily promoted the V15 PCC's in the Gorge. > There were 20+ boats, with some of the best sailors in the area > competing and teams actually came up from California. > > > > Having been to several HS National Championships myself and watching > our kids generally get clobbered (that's putting in mildly), teams in > the NW District have to expand their sailing horizons' from their local level. > There have been many great sailors pass through the ranks of the NW > District; they have all become great sailors by participating in > regattas that take them to the next level like NOOD (formerly SOCKS), > Sears Cup, Bemis, Laser NA's, etc. > > > > Most all of your competition (every other HS outside of the NW > District) is doing this and more. Many schools have full time paid > coaches, year round sailing conditions and top cabin competition. > Certainly the NW District sailing program is much better off in terms > of regatta scheduling and clinics that it was 5 years ago, but if > teams in the District HS do not continue to embrace a greater playing > field, then development of the program will falter. > > > > If its about $$'s, then consider contacting your local yacht club for > sponsorship (even if they are not a member), contact the Sailing > Foundation (I bet they would be willing to sponsor a kid who finds the > cost of entry prohibitive) or better yet, put it in your HS Sailing > team budget. > > > > Hope to see you all there. And if you need a boat to sail, let me or > Burke know, he has a trailer load of them. > > > > Peter > > > > ________________________________ > > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] > On Behalf Of Trunkey, Steve - CKJH > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 7:45 AM > To: DB; PNW_V15 > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > > > I believe Matt is correct. Speaking for the Central Kitsap Team, I > would guess the difference would be somewhere between 0 and 6 boats > from our program. If it's expensive and requires membership in US > Sailing we likely won't be there. CK, like many of the high school > programs, is a community based program. We have kids from modest > upbringings that found even the $79 registration fee for 3 months of sailing expensive. > Some of these kids will catch the sailing fever, become successful > working adults, and eventually become leaders in the sailing community. > For now, we should be drawing them into the sport and making it > accessible. > > As for the social ticket - it looks like a good deal for me > personally, but I'm not likely to take high school kids into the > typical yacht club social setting. We would race and head home and > eat from our brown bags. > > -----Original Message----- > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org > ] On Behalf Of hebardmf at myuw.net > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:18 PM > To: Peter Shorett > Cc: pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > Uhh, did we need to be members to US Sailing for SOCKS last year? What > about the CGRA One-Design? CYC Seattle One-Design? Turkey Bowl? If we > did, I guess I owe someone some $$.... But all that is beside the point. > Here's the real issue for "the fleet": > > Can the V15 fleet get 6 boats/skippers registered, who are members of > US Sailing, prior to April 28th (after the 28th there is a $50 late > fee so it becomes ridiculously expensive then) WITHOUT having to rely > on High School Sailors to be some of the 6 boats? If the V15 fleet > can, then MAYBE the V15s will have there own start. Or, maybe V15s > will start with another fleet (Tasars) and be scored separately. If > the V15ers want to be assured their own start, we need 10 boats > registered. (This is all from the NOR, paragraph 3.2). So, try to name > 10 V15ers who will do this regatta WITHOUT relying on the High School > fleets (Orcas, Port Townsend, Central Kitsap, Bainbridge, Friday Harbor, Port Angeles)... > > 1) Dean B. > 2) Peter S. > 3) Zig B. > 4)? > 5)? > 6)? > 7)? > 8)? > 9)? > 10)? > > Kinda hard, isn't it? I like Dean's approach: make it cheaper, > somehow, for the High School kids. That may make it more likely a > fleet will form in time. I frankly, don't know how many High School > Sailors (i.e., those involved in the NWISA circuit) are members of US > Sailing. Maybe there are more than I know, but I doubt it. I do know > that it will be a tough sell to get some families to fork over $25 for > the Youth US Sailing membership on top of an already hefty $75 entry fee for a TWO day event. > (Read the NOR, centerboard fleets are Sat. & Sun.). > > This fleet relies on the High School crowd. We should advocate for > them as well. > > > > ________________________________ > > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] > On Behalf Of DB > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:11 AM > To: PNW_V15 > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > According to the NOR, and dialogs I've had with race organizers, the 2 > day format from SOCKS was going to be retained for the centerboard > classes in order to facilitate HS sailor schedules. Only keelboats > would sail for 3 days. The fact that the prices don't reflect this > fact strikes me as an oversight. > > > > Dean > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Jim Lyle > To: DB ; PNW_V15 > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:10:47 PM > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > Dean, > > I understand your concern. However, a youth US Sailing membership is > only $25 and only the skipper needs to apply. If the youth wants to > sail in any US Sailing championship, including the local Junior > Olympics in August they will need to be members. For a three day event > that makes the entry and membership $100. No one would complain about > 3 days of golf costing that much. It's certainly cheaper than 3 days > of snow boarding. I'm not sure how you give 2 day pricing for a 3 day event. > > I'm not involved with planning the event at all. But 3 days on the > water is not cheap and then throw in social events and $33 a day > doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I find it hard to go out to dinner > for $33 per person these days. > > I'm completely with you that cost is something we need to work on to > promote our sport. But I'm afraid the days of $25 regattas have past - > right along with gas under $2/gallon. > > Jim Lyle > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: DB > To: PNW_V15 > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 12:45:31 PM > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > I would like to explore alternative pricing. I am drafting a letter > to the organizers expressing our concerns. I would like to offer > pricing alternatives. There are a few points that are particularly troublesome. > > 1. US Sailing membership - At most regattas, US Sailing membership is > not mandatory and can be applied towards a discount for those with > membership. Here it works the other way around and introduces > considerable expense. > 2. 2 day pricing - It looks like the pricing schedule is for a 3 day > event. > 3. Youth pricing - I would like to see a discount for youth and HS > sailors. > > I'm going to send it off tomorrow morning. If you have any > suggestions, I would like to hear them. > > Dean > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: B&B Thomas > To: hebardmf at myuw.net; DB > Cc: PNW_V15 > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:09:19 AM > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > That kind of entry fee for a two day regatta will make it very > difficult for high school sailors to participate Burke > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "DB" > Cc: "PNW_V15" > Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:58 PM > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > >> Hmm. So the regatta entry fee for me is $135.00 b/c I'm not a US > Sailing >> member....yet. Great. >> >> >> On Sat, 22 Mar 2008, DB wrote: >> >>> Attached is the entry form for the Seattle NOOD. Can't wait to see >>> everybody out there. >>> >>> Dean >>> >>> >>> >>> > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > ____________ >>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. >>> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pnw-v15 mailing list >> Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org >> http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 >> >> > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > ____________ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping > _______________________________________________ > Pnw-v15 mailing list > Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try > it now. > 62 > sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20> > > ________________________________________________________________________ ____________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping _______________________________________________ Pnw-v15 mailing list Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 From pshorett at gvakm.com Mon Mar 24 16:36:33 2008 From: pshorett at gvakm.com (Peter Shorett) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:36:33 -0700 Subject: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form In-Reply-To: References: <8789592E4638AB4A969D5E4662978B2907C7E45E@MAIL.cksd.wednet.edu> Message-ID: <25CE2456453DEB4AB3D8A313E3D9CA260AF43679@km6.kms.local> V15's at NOOD would not happen without HS support, there simply are not be enough boats/sailors in the Seattle Portland area to make it work. Burke and Scott have been huge supporters of stepping out of the box by bringing boats for these events. Burke has said he is bringing 5 boats on a trailer to NOOD, with a few HS sailors leaving a few boats available for HS alum or other invitees. I don't know what Scott is up to, but with a poke and a prod...... We also have the help of Dean from Portland who is rallying that fleet, although they probably will not bring more than a couple boats (right Dean?). And you get me, Zig and maybe a few other boats from PMYC. Big thanks go to Burke and Scott who have helped tremendously in establishing V15 presence at higher caliber regattas. For CYC One Design in October 2006, they brought 10 or so boats on a trailer and packed 'em with HS sailors and alums. With the other boats, I think we had 13 boats registered and on the water. At SOCKS in 2007, we had a similar turn out, and at the PCC's in the Gorge, we had an even higher caliber 20 boat regatta with numerous college level sailors and adults, and a few HS kids - Stellmacher, Renehan, for example. Continued success of the V15 Fleet can not rely on just a couple of people person waving the flag - others to step up. This is still a fleet in development - without HS support, it will loose one of its primary drivers. The progress in HS Sailing's development is hindered because it lacks an active double handed class that better matches HS & college sailing programs than Tasars, the only real active double handed boat with any energy in the NW area. Travel around the country, there are plenty of quality regattas for 420's or FJ's. Given the critical mass of V15's under HS related ownership, why not make that the dominate class to put HS kids in? I count 40+ V15's in the HS Sailing system and another 20 non HS owned boats in the Seattle area, plus Portland's 15 or so boats. That's a pretty good fleet right there! I am very happy to see that the listserve is alive and well, and that people are using it to express their interest in V15 sailing. Let's put this energy to good use and develop the V15 Class into something where we will want to pay the $75 dollars to go race! Peter -----Original Message----- From: hebardmf at myuw.net [mailto:hebardmf at myuw.net] Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:44 AM To: Trunkey, Steve - CKJH Cc: Peter Shorett; DB; PNW_V15 Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form Well said by Steve. I suspect the Port Townsend and Port Angeles fleets have the same sentiments. We still don't have the immediate question answered: Are there 10 (or 6) V15s that will register for this, excluding the High School Programs as part of the 10 (or 6)? Maybe 6, probably not 10. I wonder if a NOOD V15 fleet can form without enlisting the help of the High School Programs. -- Matt On Mon, 24 Mar 2008, Trunkey, Steve - CKJH wrote: > It seems maybe some further clarification might be useful. My comments > are not negativity, but rather just reflecting where our program and > several others are at this point. We are not affiliated with any yacht > club or other wealthy organization, and our kids are typically raw > beginners who have come to our program as teenagers with no previous > sailing experience. So, a student who stepped into a boat for the first > time in their lives three weeks ago doesn't have National Championships, > US Sailing membership, and competing against year round programs with > paid coaches in mind. > > I think it's great that those opportunities are out there for kids, but > we aren't there yet. > > However, I think we should want to expand the sport so that kids like > ours might ultimately get there - maybe at the collegiate level and then > someday buying their own boat, etc. That means opening the "higher > level of competition" up to all kids. Maybe if we really want them to > have membership in US Sailing we could make the total fee for this > regatta $25 for high school sailors and they could come away with both > the experience of high level competition and membership in the > organization. Know also that operating a community based sailing > program takes hundreds of hours already, so every added complication > such as raising funds for one regatta, represents a formidable > challenge. > > ________________________________ > > From: Peter Shorett [mailto:pshorett at gvakm.com] > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 9:15 AM > To: Trunkey, Steve - CKJH; DB; PNW_V15 > Subject: RE: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > > > I am a little surprised that there is such negative discussion on this. > > > > > The reason for encouraging teams to attend these types of events is to > raise the level of competition - to expose sailors to a higher level of > competition. Last year, we heavily promoted the V15 PCC's in the Gorge. > There were 20+ boats, with some of the best sailors in the area > competing and teams actually came up from California. > > > > Having been to several HS National Championships myself and watching our > kids generally get clobbered (that's putting in mildly), teams in the NW > District have to expand their sailing horizons' from their local level. > There have been many great sailors pass through the ranks of the NW > District; they have all become great sailors by participating in > regattas that take them to the next level like NOOD (formerly SOCKS), > Sears Cup, Bemis, Laser NA's, etc. > > > > Most all of your competition (every other HS outside of the NW District) > is doing this and more. Many schools have full time paid coaches, year > round sailing conditions and top cabin competition. Certainly the NW > District sailing program is much better off in terms of regatta > scheduling and clinics that it was 5 years ago, but if teams in the > District HS do not continue to embrace a greater playing field, then > development of the program will falter. > > > > If its about $$'s, then consider contacting your local yacht club for > sponsorship (even if they are not a member), contact the Sailing > Foundation (I bet they would be willing to sponsor a kid who finds the > cost of entry prohibitive) or better yet, put it in your HS Sailing team > budget. > > > > Hope to see you all there. And if you need a boat to sail, let me or > Burke know, he has a trailer load of them. > > > > Peter > > > > ________________________________ > > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] > On Behalf Of Trunkey, Steve - CKJH > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 7:45 AM > To: DB; PNW_V15 > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > > > I believe Matt is correct. Speaking for the Central Kitsap Team, I would > guess the difference would be somewhere between 0 and 6 boats from our > program. If it's expensive and requires membership in US Sailing we > likely won't be there. CK, like many of the high school programs, is a > community based program. We have kids from modest upbringings that > found even the $79 registration fee for 3 months of sailing expensive. > Some of these kids will catch the sailing fever, become successful > working adults, and eventually become leaders in the sailing community. > For now, we should be drawing them into the sport and making it > accessible. > > As for the social ticket - it looks like a good deal for me personally, > but I'm not likely to take high school kids into the typical yacht club > social setting. We would race and head home and eat from our brown > bags. > > -----Original Message----- > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org > ] On Behalf Of hebardmf at myuw.net > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:18 PM > To: Peter Shorett > Cc: pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > Uhh, did we need to be members to US Sailing for SOCKS last year? What > about the CGRA One-Design? CYC Seattle One-Design? Turkey Bowl? If we > did, I guess I owe someone some $$.... But all that is beside the point. > Here's the real issue for "the fleet": > > Can the V15 fleet get 6 boats/skippers registered, who are members of US > Sailing, prior to April 28th (after the 28th there is a $50 late fee so > it becomes ridiculously expensive then) WITHOUT having to rely on High > School Sailors to be some of the 6 boats? If the V15 fleet can, then > MAYBE the V15s will have there own start. Or, maybe V15s will start with > another fleet (Tasars) and be scored separately. If the V15ers want to > be assured their own start, we need 10 boats registered. (This is all > from the NOR, paragraph 3.2). So, try to name 10 V15ers who will do this > regatta WITHOUT relying on the High School fleets (Orcas, Port Townsend, > Central Kitsap, Bainbridge, Friday Harbor, Port Angeles)... > > 1) Dean B. > 2) Peter S. > 3) Zig B. > 4)? > 5)? > 6)? > 7)? > 8)? > 9)? > 10)? > > Kinda hard, isn't it? I like Dean's approach: make it cheaper, somehow, > for the High School kids. That may make it more likely a fleet will form > in time. I frankly, don't know how many High School Sailors (i.e., those > involved in the NWISA circuit) are members of US Sailing. Maybe there > are more than I know, but I doubt it. I do know that it will be a tough > sell to get some families to fork over $25 for the Youth US Sailing > membership on top of an already hefty $75 entry fee for a TWO day event. > (Read the NOR, centerboard fleets are Sat. & Sun.). > > This fleet relies on the High School crowd. We should advocate for them > as well. > > > > ________________________________ > > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] > On Behalf Of DB > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:11 AM > To: PNW_V15 > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > According to the NOR, and dialogs I've had with race organizers, the 2 > day format from SOCKS was going to be retained for the centerboard > classes in order to facilitate HS sailor schedules. Only keelboats > would sail for 3 days. The fact that the prices don't reflect this fact > strikes me as an oversight. > > > > Dean > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Jim Lyle > To: DB ; PNW_V15 > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:10:47 PM > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > Dean, > > I understand your concern. However, a youth US Sailing membership is > only $25 and only the skipper needs to apply. If the youth wants to sail > in any US Sailing championship, including the local Junior Olympics in > August they will need to be members. For a three day event that makes > the entry and membership $100. No one would complain about 3 days of > golf costing that much. It's certainly cheaper than 3 days of snow > boarding. I'm not sure how you give 2 day pricing for a 3 day event. > > I'm not involved with planning the event at all. But 3 days on the water > is not cheap and then throw in social events and $33 a day doesn't seem > unreasonable to me. I find it hard to go out to dinner for $33 per > person these days. > > I'm completely with you that cost is something we need to work on to > promote our sport. But I'm afraid the days of $25 regattas have past - > right along with gas under $2/gallon. > > Jim Lyle > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: DB > To: PNW_V15 > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 12:45:31 PM > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > I would like to explore alternative pricing. I am drafting a letter to > the organizers expressing our concerns. I would like to offer pricing > alternatives. There are a few points that are particularly troublesome. > > 1. US Sailing membership - At most regattas, US Sailing membership is > not mandatory and can be applied towards a discount for those with > membership. Here it works the other way around and introduces > considerable expense. > 2. 2 day pricing - It looks like the pricing schedule is for a 3 day > event. > 3. Youth pricing - I would like to see a discount for youth and HS > sailors. > > I'm going to send it off tomorrow morning. If you have any suggestions, > I would like to hear them. > > Dean > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: B&B Thomas > To: hebardmf at myuw.net; DB > Cc: PNW_V15 > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:09:19 AM > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > That kind of entry fee for a two day regatta will make it very > difficult > for high school sailors to participate > Burke > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "DB" > Cc: "PNW_V15" > Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:58 PM > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > >> Hmm. So the regatta entry fee for me is $135.00 b/c I'm not a US > Sailing >> member....yet. Great. >> >> >> On Sat, 22 Mar 2008, DB wrote: >> >>> Attached is the entry form for the Seattle NOOD. Can't wait to see >>> everybody out there. >>> >>> Dean >>> >>> >>> >>> > ________________________________________________________________________ > ____________ >>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. >>> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pnw-v15 mailing list >> Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org >> http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ____________ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping > _______________________________________________ > Pnw-v15 mailing list > Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try > it now. > sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20> > > From kaselers at donobi.net Mon Mar 24 17:35:08 2008 From: kaselers at donobi.net (Kaselers) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:35:08 -0700 Subject: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form In-Reply-To: <32C2F0BAA99C164E9D3A64EA9668FE78C1486E@ms-2003.ms.local> Message-ID: I am not sure that NOOD is really the best opportunity for development for HS sailors. Yes, it will have the hot sailors in it, probably leaving the general mass of HS sailors in the back of the fleet. It seems to me that the PNW V-15 fleet could choose to hold a regatta (or more than one) that they organize and promote themselves. Then costs could be set as considered appropriate by the fleet. (Perhaps the fees will end up just as high when calculated). With proper publicity and PNW fleet enthusiasm, such a regatta could be well attended by all levels of ability. And I think the tendency to share what one knows with the less experienced would be greater. Sort of like the informal bush regattas that the Tasars held, I guess. I do think it is important that all sailors that are experienced and racing support US Sailing with membership. Without rules and US Sailing we have no game. Newbies should be made aware of US Sailing and encouraged to join. S Kaseler -----Original Message----- From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] On Behalf Of John Schalka Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 12:54 PM To: DB; PNW_V15 Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form I cannot help stepping in here. I happened to be at the meeting where the fees were set and I know a lot of thought was put into trying to keep them contained for the centerboard classes. It happens that NOOD is a for profit organization so our control was limited relative to the previous SOCKS regatta. Still, I think the fees are generally reasonable for a high level event. I agree with Peter that this would be a good experience for anyone interested in sailing. John Schalka -----Original Message----- From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] On Behalf Of DB Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:57 AM To: PNW_V15 Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form I'm sure it comes as no surprise that I'm still looking forward to the event and am ready to sign up. Dean ----- Original Message ---- From: "hebardmf at myuw.net" To: "Trunkey, Steve - CKJH" Cc: Peter Shorett ; DB ; PNW_V15 Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:43:46 AM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form Well said by Steve. I suspect the Port Townsend and Port Angeles fleets have the same sentiments. We still don't have the immediate question answered: Are there 10 (or 6) V15s that will register for this, excluding the High School Programs as part of the 10 (or 6)? Maybe 6, probably not 10. I wonder if a NOOD V15 fleet can form without enlisting the help of the High School Programs. -- Matt On Mon, 24 Mar 2008, Trunkey, Steve - CKJH wrote: > It seems maybe some further clarification might be useful. My > comments are not negativity, but rather just reflecting where our > program and several others are at this point. We are not affiliated > with any yacht club or other wealthy organization, and our kids are > typically raw beginners who have come to our program as teenagers with > no previous sailing experience. So, a student who stepped into a boat > for the first time in their lives three weeks ago doesn't have > National Championships, US Sailing membership, and competing against > year round programs with paid coaches in mind. > > I think it's great that those opportunities are out there for kids, > but we aren't there yet. > > However, I think we should want to expand the sport so that kids like > ours might ultimately get there - maybe at the collegiate level and > then someday buying their own boat, etc. That means opening the > "higher level of competition" up to all kids. Maybe if we really want > them to have membership in US Sailing we could make the total fee for > this regatta $25 for high school sailors and they could come away with > both the experience of high level competition and membership in the > organization. Know also that operating a community based sailing > program takes hundreds of hours already, so every added complication > such as raising funds for one regatta, represents a formidable > challenge. > > ________________________________ > > From: Peter Shorett [mailto:pshorett at gvakm.com] > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 9:15 AM > To: Trunkey, Steve - CKJH; DB; PNW_V15 > Subject: RE: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > > > I am a little surprised that there is such negative discussion on this. > > > > > The reason for encouraging teams to attend these types of events is to > raise the level of competition - to expose sailors to a higher level > of competition. Last year, we heavily promoted the V15 PCC's in the Gorge. > There were 20+ boats, with some of the best sailors in the area > competing and teams actually came up from California. > > > > Having been to several HS National Championships myself and watching > our kids generally get clobbered (that's putting in mildly), teams in > the NW District have to expand their sailing horizons' from their local level. > There have been many great sailors pass through the ranks of the NW > District; they have all become great sailors by participating in > regattas that take them to the next level like NOOD (formerly SOCKS), > Sears Cup, Bemis, Laser NA's, etc. > > > > Most all of your competition (every other HS outside of the NW > District) is doing this and more. Many schools have full time paid > coaches, year round sailing conditions and top cabin competition. > Certainly the NW District sailing program is much better off in terms > of regatta scheduling and clinics that it was 5 years ago, but if > teams in the District HS do not continue to embrace a greater playing > field, then development of the program will falter. > > > > If its about $$'s, then consider contacting your local yacht club for > sponsorship (even if they are not a member), contact the Sailing > Foundation (I bet they would be willing to sponsor a kid who finds the > cost of entry prohibitive) or better yet, put it in your HS Sailing > team budget. > > > > Hope to see you all there. And if you need a boat to sail, let me or > Burke know, he has a trailer load of them. > > > > Peter > > > > ________________________________ > > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] > On Behalf Of Trunkey, Steve - CKJH > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 7:45 AM > To: DB; PNW_V15 > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > > > I believe Matt is correct. Speaking for the Central Kitsap Team, I > would guess the difference would be somewhere between 0 and 6 boats > from our program. If it's expensive and requires membership in US > Sailing we likely won't be there. CK, like many of the high school > programs, is a community based program. We have kids from modest > upbringings that found even the $79 registration fee for 3 months of sailing expensive. > Some of these kids will catch the sailing fever, become successful > working adults, and eventually become leaders in the sailing community. > For now, we should be drawing them into the sport and making it > accessible. > > As for the social ticket - it looks like a good deal for me > personally, but I'm not likely to take high school kids into the > typical yacht club social setting. We would race and head home and > eat from our brown bags. > > -----Original Message----- > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org > ] On Behalf Of hebardmf at myuw.net > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:18 PM > To: Peter Shorett > Cc: pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > Uhh, did we need to be members to US Sailing for SOCKS last year? What > about the CGRA One-Design? CYC Seattle One-Design? Turkey Bowl? If we > did, I guess I owe someone some $$.... But all that is beside the point. > Here's the real issue for "the fleet": > > Can the V15 fleet get 6 boats/skippers registered, who are members of > US Sailing, prior to April 28th (after the 28th there is a $50 late > fee so it becomes ridiculously expensive then) WITHOUT having to rely > on High School Sailors to be some of the 6 boats? If the V15 fleet > can, then MAYBE the V15s will have there own start. Or, maybe V15s > will start with another fleet (Tasars) and be scored separately. If > the V15ers want to be assured their own start, we need 10 boats > registered. (This is all from the NOR, paragraph 3.2). So, try to name > 10 V15ers who will do this regatta WITHOUT relying on the High School > fleets (Orcas, Port Townsend, Central Kitsap, Bainbridge, Friday Harbor, Port Angeles)... > > 1) Dean B. > 2) Peter S. > 3) Zig B. > 4)? > 5)? > 6)? > 7)? > 8)? > 9)? > 10)? > > Kinda hard, isn't it? I like Dean's approach: make it cheaper, > somehow, for the High School kids. That may make it more likely a > fleet will form in time. I frankly, don't know how many High School > Sailors (i.e., those involved in the NWISA circuit) are members of US > Sailing. Maybe there are more than I know, but I doubt it. I do know > that it will be a tough sell to get some families to fork over $25 for > the Youth US Sailing membership on top of an already hefty $75 entry fee for a TWO day event. > (Read the NOR, centerboard fleets are Sat. & Sun.). > > This fleet relies on the High School crowd. We should advocate for > them as well. > > > > ________________________________ > > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] > On Behalf Of DB > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:11 AM > To: PNW_V15 > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > According to the NOR, and dialogs I've had with race organizers, the 2 > day format from SOCKS was going to be retained for the centerboard > classes in order to facilitate HS sailor schedules. Only keelboats > would sail for 3 days. The fact that the prices don't reflect this > fact strikes me as an oversight. > > > > Dean > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Jim Lyle > To: DB ; PNW_V15 > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:10:47 PM > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > Dean, > > I understand your concern. However, a youth US Sailing membership is > only $25 and only the skipper needs to apply. If the youth wants to > sail in any US Sailing championship, including the local Junior > Olympics in August they will need to be members. For a three day event > that makes the entry and membership $100. No one would complain about > 3 days of golf costing that much. It's certainly cheaper than 3 days > of snow boarding. I'm not sure how you give 2 day pricing for a 3 day event. > > I'm not involved with planning the event at all. But 3 days on the > water is not cheap and then throw in social events and $33 a day > doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I find it hard to go out to dinner > for $33 per person these days. > > I'm completely with you that cost is something we need to work on to > promote our sport. But I'm afraid the days of $25 regattas have past - > right along with gas under $2/gallon. > > Jim Lyle > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: DB > To: PNW_V15 > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 12:45:31 PM > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > I would like to explore alternative pricing. I am drafting a letter > to the organizers expressing our concerns. I would like to offer > pricing alternatives. There are a few points that are particularly troublesome. > > 1. US Sailing membership - At most regattas, US Sailing membership is > not mandatory and can be applied towards a discount for those with > membership. Here it works the other way around and introduces > considerable expense. > 2. 2 day pricing - It looks like the pricing schedule is for a 3 day > event. > 3. Youth pricing - I would like to see a discount for youth and HS > sailors. > > I'm going to send it off tomorrow morning. If you have any > suggestions, I would like to hear them. > > Dean > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: B&B Thomas > To: hebardmf at myuw.net; DB > Cc: PNW_V15 > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:09:19 AM > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > That kind of entry fee for a two day regatta will make it very > difficult for high school sailors to participate Burke > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "DB" > Cc: "PNW_V15" > Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:58 PM > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > >> Hmm. So the regatta entry fee for me is $135.00 b/c I'm not a US > Sailing >> member....yet. Great. >> >> >> On Sat, 22 Mar 2008, DB wrote: >> >>> Attached is the entry form for the Seattle NOOD. Can't wait to see >>> everybody out there. >>> >>> Dean >>> >>> >>> >>> > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > ____________ >>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. >>> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pnw-v15 mailing list >> Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org >> http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 >> >> > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > ____________ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping > _______________________________________________ > Pnw-v15 mailing list > Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try > it now. > 62 > sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20> > > ________________________________________________________________________ ____________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping _______________________________________________ Pnw-v15 mailing list Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 _______________________________________________ Pnw-v15 mailing list Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 From madnicholas at earthlink.net Mon Mar 24 17:41:55 2008 From: madnicholas at earthlink.net (Nick Taylor) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:41:55 -0700 Subject: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3BE164A3-1526-494E-953F-24DAA42570D3@earthlink.net> I agree with most points, although I'm not so sure that some HS sailors don't benefit from being shot out the back. It shows them how far they have to go, and you learn from racing with better people. I also agree with joining US sailing. You aren't paying for one regatta, you are paying for a year of membership, as well as supporting the institution of sailing. Can US Sailing be better? Sure, but as of mow it's what we've got, and they really do try to make our sport better. Sorry to chime in when I have little to do with your fleet, I just wanted to add to Susie's comments. -Nick On Mar 24, 2008, at 2:35 PM, Kaselers wrote: > I am not sure that NOOD is really the best opportunity for > development for > HS sailors. Yes, it will have the hot sailors in it, probably > leaving the > general mass of HS sailors in the back of the fleet. > It seems to me that the PNW V-15 fleet could choose to hold a > regatta (or > more than one) that they organize and promote themselves. Then > costs could > be set as considered appropriate by the fleet. (Perhaps the fees > will end > up just as high when calculated). With proper publicity and PNW fleet > enthusiasm, such a regatta could be well attended by all levels of > ability. > And I think the tendency to share what one knows with the less > experienced > would be greater. Sort of like the informal bush regattas that the > Tasars > held, I guess. > > I do think it is important that all sailors that are experienced > and racing > support US Sailing with membership. Without rules and US Sailing > we have no > game. > Newbies should be made aware of US Sailing and encouraged to join. > > S Kaseler > > -----Original Message----- > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15- > bounces at myfleet.org] On > Behalf Of John Schalka > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 12:54 PM > To: DB; PNW_V15 > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > > > I cannot help stepping in here. I happened to be at the meeting where > the fees were set and I know a lot of thought was put into trying to > keep them contained for the centerboard classes. It happens that NOOD > is a for profit organization so our control was limited relative to > the > previous SOCKS regatta. Still, I think the fees are generally > reasonable for a high level event. I agree with Peter that this would > be a good experience for anyone interested in sailing. > > John Schalka > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] > On Behalf Of DB > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:57 AM > To: PNW_V15 > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > I'm sure it comes as no surprise that I'm still looking forward to the > event and am ready to sign up. > > Dean > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: "hebardmf at myuw.net" > To: "Trunkey, Steve - CKJH" > Cc: Peter Shorett ; DB ; > PNW_V15 > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:43:46 AM > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > Well said by Steve. I suspect the Port Townsend and Port Angeles > fleets > have the same sentiments. > > We still don't have the immediate question answered: Are there 10 (or > 6) V15s that will register for this, excluding the High School > Programs > as part of the 10 (or 6)? > > Maybe 6, probably not 10. > > I wonder if a NOOD V15 fleet can form without enlisting the help of > the > High School Programs. > > -- Matt > > > On Mon, 24 Mar 2008, Trunkey, Steve - CKJH wrote: > >> It seems maybe some further clarification might be useful. My >> comments are not negativity, but rather just reflecting where our >> program and several others are at this point. We are not affiliated >> with any yacht club or other wealthy organization, and our kids are >> typically raw beginners who have come to our program as teenagers >> with > >> no previous sailing experience. So, a student who stepped into a >> boat > >> for the first time in their lives three weeks ago doesn't have >> National Championships, US Sailing membership, and competing against >> year round programs with paid coaches in mind. >> >> I think it's great that those opportunities are out there for kids, >> but we aren't there yet. >> >> However, I think we should want to expand the sport so that kids like >> ours might ultimately get there - maybe at the collegiate level and >> then someday buying their own boat, etc. That means opening the >> "higher level of competition" up to all kids. Maybe if we really >> want > >> them to have membership in US Sailing we could make the total fee for >> this regatta $25 for high school sailors and they could come away >> with > >> both the experience of high level competition and membership in the >> organization. Know also that operating a community based sailing >> program takes hundreds of hours already, so every added complication >> such as raising funds for one regatta, represents a formidable >> challenge. >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: Peter Shorett [mailto:pshorett at gvakm.com] >> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 9:15 AM >> To: Trunkey, Steve - CKJH; DB; PNW_V15 >> Subject: RE: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form >> >> >> >> I am a little surprised that there is such negative discussion on > this. >> >> >> >> >> The reason for encouraging teams to attend these types of events >> is to > >> raise the level of competition - to expose sailors to a higher level >> of competition. Last year, we heavily promoted the V15 PCC's in the > Gorge. >> There were 20+ boats, with some of the best sailors in the area >> competing and teams actually came up from California. >> >> >> >> Having been to several HS National Championships myself and watching >> our kids generally get clobbered (that's putting in mildly), teams in >> the NW District have to expand their sailing horizons' from their > local level. >> There have been many great sailors pass through the ranks of the NW >> District; they have all become great sailors by participating in >> regattas that take them to the next level like NOOD (formerly SOCKS), >> Sears Cup, Bemis, Laser NA's, etc. >> >> >> >> Most all of your competition (every other HS outside of the NW >> District) is doing this and more. Many schools have full time paid >> coaches, year round sailing conditions and top cabin competition. >> Certainly the NW District sailing program is much better off in terms >> of regatta scheduling and clinics that it was 5 years ago, but if >> teams in the District HS do not continue to embrace a greater playing >> field, then development of the program will falter. >> >> >> >> If its about $$'s, then consider contacting your local yacht club for >> sponsorship (even if they are not a member), contact the Sailing >> Foundation (I bet they would be willing to sponsor a kid who finds >> the > >> cost of entry prohibitive) or better yet, put it in your HS Sailing >> team budget. >> >> >> >> Hope to see you all there. And if you need a boat to sail, let me or >> Burke know, he has a trailer load of them. >> >> >> >> Peter >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15- >> bounces at myfleet.org] >> On Behalf Of Trunkey, Steve - CKJH >> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 7:45 AM >> To: DB; PNW_V15 >> Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form >> >> >> >> I believe Matt is correct. Speaking for the Central Kitsap Team, I >> would guess the difference would be somewhere between 0 and 6 boats >> from our program. If it's expensive and requires membership in US >> Sailing we likely won't be there. CK, like many of the high school >> programs, is a community based program. We have kids from modest >> upbringings that found even the $79 registration fee for 3 months of > sailing expensive. >> Some of these kids will catch the sailing fever, become successful >> working adults, and eventually become leaders in the sailing > community. >> For now, we should be drawing them into the sport and making it >> accessible. >> >> As for the social ticket - it looks like a good deal for me >> personally, but I'm not likely to take high school kids into the >> typical yacht club social setting. We would race and head home and >> eat from our brown bags. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org >> ] On Behalf Of hebardmf at myuw.net >> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:18 PM >> To: Peter Shorett >> Cc: pnw-v15 at myfleet.org >> Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form >> >> Uhh, did we need to be members to US Sailing for SOCKS last year? >> What > >> about the CGRA One-Design? CYC Seattle One-Design? Turkey Bowl? If we >> did, I guess I owe someone some $$.... But all that is beside the > point. >> Here's the real issue for "the fleet": >> >> Can the V15 fleet get 6 boats/skippers registered, who are members of >> US Sailing, prior to April 28th (after the 28th there is a $50 late >> fee so it becomes ridiculously expensive then) WITHOUT having to rely >> on High School Sailors to be some of the 6 boats? If the V15 fleet >> can, then MAYBE the V15s will have there own start. Or, maybe V15s >> will start with another fleet (Tasars) and be scored separately. If >> the V15ers want to be assured their own start, we need 10 boats >> registered. (This is all from the NOR, paragraph 3.2). So, try to >> name > >> 10 V15ers who will do this regatta WITHOUT relying on the High School >> fleets (Orcas, Port Townsend, Central Kitsap, Bainbridge, Friday > Harbor, Port Angeles)... >> >> 1) Dean B. >> 2) Peter S. >> 3) Zig B. >> 4)? >> 5)? >> 6)? >> 7)? >> 8)? >> 9)? >> 10)? >> >> Kinda hard, isn't it? I like Dean's approach: make it cheaper, >> somehow, for the High School kids. That may make it more likely a >> fleet will form in time. I frankly, don't know how many High School >> Sailors (i.e., those involved in the NWISA circuit) are members of US >> Sailing. Maybe there are more than I know, but I doubt it. I do know >> that it will be a tough sell to get some families to fork over $25 >> for > >> the Youth US Sailing membership on top of an already hefty $75 entry > fee for a TWO day event. >> (Read the NOR, centerboard fleets are Sat. & Sun.). >> >> This fleet relies on the High School crowd. We should advocate for >> them as well. >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15- >> bounces at myfleet.org] >> On Behalf Of DB >> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:11 AM >> To: PNW_V15 >> Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form >> >> According to the NOR, and dialogs I've had with race organizers, >> the 2 > >> day format from SOCKS was going to be retained for the centerboard >> classes in order to facilitate HS sailor schedules. Only keelboats >> would sail for 3 days. The fact that the prices don't reflect this >> fact strikes me as an oversight. >> >> >> >> Dean >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Jim Lyle >> To: DB ; PNW_V15 >> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:10:47 PM >> Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form >> >> Dean, >> >> I understand your concern. However, a youth US Sailing membership is >> only $25 and only the skipper needs to apply. If the youth wants to >> sail in any US Sailing championship, including the local Junior >> Olympics in August they will need to be members. For a three day >> event > >> that makes the entry and membership $100. No one would complain about >> 3 days of golf costing that much. It's certainly cheaper than 3 days >> of snow boarding. I'm not sure how you give 2 day pricing for a 3 day > event. >> >> I'm not involved with planning the event at all. But 3 days on the >> water is not cheap and then throw in social events and $33 a day >> doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I find it hard to go out to dinner >> for $33 per person these days. >> >> I'm completely with you that cost is something we need to work on to >> promote our sport. But I'm afraid the days of $25 regattas have >> past - > >> right along with gas under $2/gallon. >> >> Jim Lyle >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >> From: DB >> To: PNW_V15 >> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 12:45:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form >> >> I would like to explore alternative pricing. I am drafting a letter >> to the organizers expressing our concerns. I would like to offer >> pricing alternatives. There are a few points that are particularly > troublesome. >> >> 1. US Sailing membership - At most regattas, US Sailing membership is >> not mandatory and can be applied towards a discount for those with >> membership. Here it works the other way around and introduces >> considerable expense. >> 2. 2 day pricing - It looks like the pricing schedule is for a 3 day >> event. >> 3. Youth pricing - I would like to see a discount for youth and HS >> sailors. >> >> I'm going to send it off tomorrow morning. If you have any >> suggestions, I would like to hear them. >> >> Dean >> >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >> From: B&B Thomas >> To: hebardmf at myuw.net; DB >> Cc: PNW_V15 >> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:09:19 AM >> Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form >> >> That kind of entry fee for a two day regatta will make it very >> difficult for high school sailors to participate Burke >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "DB" >> Cc: "PNW_V15" >> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:58 PM >> Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form >> >> >>> Hmm. So the regatta entry fee for me is $135.00 b/c I'm not a US >> Sailing >>> member....yet. Great. >>> >>> >>> On Sat, 22 Mar 2008, DB wrote: >>> >>>> Attached is the entry form for the Seattle NOOD. Can't wait to see >>>> everybody out there. >>>> >>>> Dean >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> _ >> __ >> ____________ >>>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. >>>> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pnw-v15 mailing list >>> Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org >>> http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 >>> >>> >> >> >> >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> _ >> __ >> ____________ >> Looking for last minute shopping deals? >> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. >> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php? >> category=shopping >> _______________________________________________ >> Pnw-v15 mailing list >> Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org >> http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. >> Try > >> it now. >> > mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i >> 62 >> sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > ____________ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping > _______________________________________________ > Pnw-v15 mailing list > Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 > _______________________________________________ > Pnw-v15 mailing list > Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 > > > _______________________________________________ > Pnw-v15 mailing list > Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 From fhsailcoach at hotmail.com Mon Mar 24 18:18:30 2008 From: fhsailcoach at hotmail.com (Scott Boye) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:18:30 -0700 Subject: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form In-Reply-To: <25CE2456453DEB4AB3D8A313E3D9CA260AF43679@km6.kms.local> References: <8789592E4638AB4A969D5E4662978B2907C7E45E@MAIL.cksd.wednet.edu> <25CE2456453DEB4AB3D8A313E3D9CA260AF43679@km6.kms.local> Message-ID: I've held back from commenting, but since Peter has poked and prodded.... You have seen it from me and Burke before, we'll show up with a couple of trailers full of boats for just about any regatta the group wants to race in. First priority goes to High Schoolers from Friday Harbor for my boats, and Burke would probably say the same regarding Orcas high schoolers but from there on out, the boats will be available for charter for what amounts to transportation costs. Regarding US Sailing membership, ISSA (the governing body of High School sailing) got caught flat-footed on the membership requirement. Jim Capron claims to have spoken to the president of ISSA but the prez doesn't seem to have any memory of a specific agreement. The discussion has been burning up the ISSA directors list-serve this past week. Nation-wide there are about 5000 - 6000 kids sailing in high school programs and to add a youth membership to each of their team enrollment fees is a burden to the kids and a huge cash cow for US Sailing. Regarding the level of competition, some of the high school sailors are pretty good, some are brand new to sailing. By the time NOOD rolls around, a couple of the kids on the Friday Harbor team will have about eight weeks of sailing experience. Think about how good of a racer you were when you had a couple of months under your belt. Regarding the race entry fee, it's a little steep for high schoolers and that will hold some of them back. Here's an idea. How about if the adults in the fleet offer to subsidize the entry fees for any skipper under 18 years old? Step up and offer to cover a portion of a budding sailor's cost. Think about it. Scott Boye, Friday Harbor > Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:36:33 -0700> From: pshorett at gvakm.com> To: hebardmf at myuw.net; SteveT at cksd.wednet.edu> CC: pnw-v15 at myfleet.org> Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form> > V15's at NOOD would not happen without HS support, there simply are not> be enough boats/sailors in the Seattle Portland area to make it work. > > Burke and Scott have been huge supporters of stepping out of the box by> bringing boats for these events. Burke has said he is bringing 5 boats> on a trailer to NOOD, with a few HS sailors leaving a few boats> available for HS alum or other invitees. I don't know what Scott is up> to, but with a poke and a prod...... We also have the help of Dean from> Portland who is rallying that fleet, although they probably will not> bring more than a couple boats (right Dean?). And you get me, Zig and> maybe a few other boats from PMYC.> > Big thanks go to Burke and Scott who have helped tremendously in> establishing V15 presence at higher caliber regattas. For CYC One> Design in October 2006, they brought 10 or so boats on a trailer and> packed 'em with HS sailors and alums. With the other boats, I think we> had 13 boats registered and on the water. At SOCKS in 2007, we had a> similar turn out, and at the PCC's in the Gorge, we had an even higher> caliber 20 boat regatta with numerous college level sailors and adults,> and a few HS kids - Stellmacher, Renehan, for example.> > Continued success of the V15 Fleet can not rely on just a couple of> people person waving the flag - others to step up. This is still a> fleet in development - without HS support, it will loose one of its> primary drivers.> > The progress in HS Sailing's development is hindered because it lacks an> active double handed class that better matches HS & college sailing> programs than Tasars, the only real active double handed boat with any> energy in the NW area. Travel around the country, there are plenty of> quality regattas for 420's or FJ's. Given the critical mass of V15's> under HS related ownership, why not make that the dominate class to put> HS kids in? I count 40+ V15's in the HS Sailing system and another 20> non HS owned boats in the Seattle area, plus Portland's 15 or so boats.> That's a pretty good fleet right there! > > I am very happy to see that the listserve is alive and well, and that> people are using it to express their interest in V15 sailing. Let's put> this energy to good use and develop the V15 Class into something where> we will want to pay the $75 dollars to go race!> > Peter> > -----Original Message-----> From: hebardmf at myuw.net [mailto:hebardmf at myuw.net] > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:44 AM> To: Trunkey, Steve - CKJH> Cc: Peter Shorett; DB; PNW_V15> Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form> > Well said by Steve. I suspect the Port Townsend and Port Angeles fleets> have the same sentiments.> > We still don't have the immediate question answered: Are there 10 (or> 6) V15s that will register for this, excluding the High School Programs> as part of the 10 (or 6)?> > Maybe 6, probably not 10.> > I wonder if a NOOD V15 fleet can form without enlisting the help of the> High School Programs.> > -- Matt> > > On Mon, 24 Mar 2008, Trunkey, Steve - CKJH wrote:> > > It seems maybe some further clarification might be useful. My> comments> > are not negativity, but rather just reflecting where our program and> > several others are at this point. We are not affiliated with any> yacht> > club or other wealthy organization, and our kids are typically raw> > beginners who have come to our program as teenagers with no previous> > sailing experience. So, a student who stepped into a boat for the> first> > time in their lives three weeks ago doesn't have National> Championships,> > US Sailing membership, and competing against year round programs with> > paid coaches in mind.> >> > I think it's great that those opportunities are out there for kids,> but> > we aren't there yet.> >> > However, I think we should want to expand the sport so that kids like> > ours might ultimately get there - maybe at the collegiate level and> then> > someday buying their own boat, etc. That means opening the "higher> > level of competition" up to all kids. Maybe if we really want them to> > have membership in US Sailing we could make the total fee for this> > regatta $25 for high school sailors and they could come away with both> > the experience of high level competition and membership in the> > organization. Know also that operating a community based sailing> > program takes hundreds of hours already, so every added complication> > such as raising funds for one regatta, represents a formidable> > challenge.> >> > ________________________________> >> > From: Peter Shorett [mailto:pshorett at gvakm.com]> > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 9:15 AM> > To: Trunkey, Steve - CKJH; DB; PNW_V15> > Subject: RE: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form> >> >> >> > I am a little surprised that there is such negative discussion on> this.> >> >> >> >> > The reason for encouraging teams to attend these types of events is to> > raise the level of competition - to expose sailors to a higher level> of> > competition. Last year, we heavily promoted the V15 PCC's in the> Gorge.> > There were 20+ boats, with some of the best sailors in the area> > competing and teams actually came up from California.> >> >> >> > Having been to several HS National Championships myself and watching> our> > kids generally get clobbered (that's putting in mildly), teams in the> NW> > District have to expand their sailing horizons' from their local> level.> > There have been many great sailors pass through the ranks of the NW> > District; they have all become great sailors by participating in> > regattas that take them to the next level like NOOD (formerly SOCKS),> > Sears Cup, Bemis, Laser NA's, etc.> >> >> >> > Most all of your competition (every other HS outside of the NW> District)> > is doing this and more. Many schools have full time paid coaches,> year> > round sailing conditions and top cabin competition. Certainly the NW> > District sailing program is much better off in terms of regatta> > scheduling and clinics that it was 5 years ago, but if teams in the> > District HS do not continue to embrace a greater playing field, then> > development of the program will falter.> >> >> >> > If its about $$'s, then consider contacting your local yacht club for> > sponsorship (even if they are not a member), contact the Sailing> > Foundation (I bet they would be willing to sponsor a kid who finds the> > cost of entry prohibitive) or better yet, put it in your HS Sailing> team> > budget.> >> >> >> > Hope to see you all there. And if you need a boat to sail, let me or> > Burke know, he has a trailer load of them.> >> >> >> > Peter> >> >> >> > ________________________________> >> > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org]> > On Behalf Of Trunkey, Steve - CKJH> > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 7:45 AM> > To: DB; PNW_V15> > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form> >> >> >> > I believe Matt is correct. Speaking for the Central Kitsap Team, I> would> > guess the difference would be somewhere between 0 and 6 boats from our> > program. If it's expensive and requires membership in US Sailing we> > likely won't be there. CK, like many of the high school programs, is> a> > community based program. We have kids from modest upbringings that> > found even the $79 registration fee for 3 months of sailing expensive.> > Some of these kids will catch the sailing fever, become successful> > working adults, and eventually become leaders in the sailing> community.> > For now, we should be drawing them into the sport and making it> > accessible.> >> > As for the social ticket - it looks like a good deal for me> personally,> > but I'm not likely to take high school kids into the typical yacht> club> > social setting. We would race and head home and eat from our brown> > bags.> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org> > ] On Behalf Of hebardmf at myuw.net> > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:18 PM> > To: Peter Shorett> > Cc: pnw-v15 at myfleet.org> > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form> >> > Uhh, did we need to be members to US Sailing for SOCKS last year? What> > about the CGRA One-Design? CYC Seattle One-Design? Turkey Bowl? If we> > did, I guess I owe someone some $$.... But all that is beside the> point.> > Here's the real issue for "the fleet":> >> > Can the V15 fleet get 6 boats/skippers registered, who are members of> US> > Sailing, prior to April 28th (after the 28th there is a $50 late fee> so> > it becomes ridiculously expensive then) WITHOUT having to rely on High> > School Sailors to be some of the 6 boats? If the V15 fleet can, then> > MAYBE the V15s will have there own start. Or, maybe V15s will start> with> > another fleet (Tasars) and be scored separately. If the V15ers want to> > be assured their own start, we need 10 boats registered. (This is all> > from the NOR, paragraph 3.2). So, try to name 10 V15ers who will do> this> > regatta WITHOUT relying on the High School fleets (Orcas, Port> Townsend,> > Central Kitsap, Bainbridge, Friday Harbor, Port Angeles)...> >> > 1) Dean B.> > 2) Peter S.> > 3) Zig B.> > 4)?> > 5)?> > 6)?> > 7)?> > 8)?> > 9)?> > 10)?> >> > Kinda hard, isn't it? I like Dean's approach: make it cheaper,> somehow,> > for the High School kids. That may make it more likely a fleet will> form> > in time. I frankly, don't know how many High School Sailors (i.e.,> those> > involved in the NWISA circuit) are members of US Sailing. Maybe there> > are more than I know, but I doubt it. I do know that it will be a> tough> > sell to get some families to fork over $25 for the Youth US Sailing> > membership on top of an already hefty $75 entry fee for a TWO day> event.> > (Read the NOR, centerboard fleets are Sat. & Sun.).> >> > This fleet relies on the High School crowd. We should advocate for> them> > as well.> >> >> >> > ________________________________> >> > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org]> > On Behalf Of DB> > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:11 AM> > To: PNW_V15> > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form> >> > According to the NOR, and dialogs I've had with race organizers, the 2> > day format from SOCKS was going to be retained for the centerboard> > classes in order to facilitate HS sailor schedules. Only keelboats> > would sail for 3 days. The fact that the prices don't reflect this> fact> > strikes me as an oversight.> >> >> >> > Dean> >> > ----- Original Message ----> > From: Jim Lyle > > To: DB ; PNW_V15 > > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:10:47 PM> > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form> >> > Dean,> >> > I understand your concern. However, a youth US Sailing membership is> > only $25 and only the skipper needs to apply. If the youth wants to> sail> > in any US Sailing championship, including the local Junior Olympics in> > August they will need to be members. For a three day event that makes> > the entry and membership $100. No one would complain about 3 days of> > golf costing that much. It's certainly cheaper than 3 days of snow> > boarding. I'm not sure how you give 2 day pricing for a 3 day event.> >> > I'm not involved with planning the event at all. But 3 days on the> water> > is not cheap and then throw in social events and $33 a day doesn't> seem> > unreasonable to me. I find it hard to go out to dinner for $33 per> > person these days.> >> > I'm completely with you that cost is something we need to work on to> > promote our sport. But I'm afraid the days of $25 regattas have past -> > right along with gas under $2/gallon.> >> > Jim Lyle> >> > ----- Original Message ----> > From: DB > > To: PNW_V15 > > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 12:45:31 PM> > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form> >> > I would like to explore alternative pricing. I am drafting a letter> to> > the organizers expressing our concerns. I would like to offer pricing> > alternatives. There are a few points that are particularly> troublesome.> >> > 1. US Sailing membership - At most regattas, US Sailing membership is> > not mandatory and can be applied towards a discount for those with> > membership. Here it works the other way around and introduces> > considerable expense.> > 2. 2 day pricing - It looks like the pricing schedule is for a 3 day> > event.> > 3. Youth pricing - I would like to see a discount for youth and HS> > sailors.> >> > I'm going to send it off tomorrow morning. If you have any> suggestions,> > I would like to hear them.> >> > Dean> >> >> > ----- Original Message ----> > From: B&B Thomas > > To: hebardmf at myuw.net; DB > > Cc: PNW_V15 > > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:09:19 AM> > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form> >> > That kind of entry fee for a two day regatta will make it very> > difficult> > for high school sailors to participate> > Burke> > ----- Original Message -----> > From: > > To: "DB" > > Cc: "PNW_V15" > > Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:58 PM> > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form> >> >> >> Hmm. So the regatta entry fee for me is $135.00 b/c I'm not a US> > Sailing> >> member....yet. Great.> >>> >>> >> On Sat, 22 Mar 2008, DB wrote:> >>> >>> Attached is the entry form for the Seattle NOOD. Can't wait to see> >>> everybody out there.> >>>> >>> Dean> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> ________________________________________________________________________> > ____________> >>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.> >>> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________> >> Pnw-v15 mailing list> >> Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org> >> http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________> > ____________> > Looking for last minute shopping deals?> > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.> > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping> > _______________________________________________> > Pnw-v15 mailing list> > Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org> > http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ________________________________> >> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try> > it now.> >> > sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20>> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________> Pnw-v15 mailing list> Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org> http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 _________________________________________________________________ Watch ?Cause Effect,? a show about real people making a real difference. Learn more. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_watchcause -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bergstro2 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 24 18:33:28 2008 From: bergstro2 at yahoo.com (DB) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:33:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form Message-ID: <536286.60902.qm@web31601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In all previous events we've had a good spread of talent with good competition at the front, middle, and back of the fleet. Dean ----- Original Message ---- From: Kaselers To: John Schalka ; DB ; PNW_V15 Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 2:35:08 PM Subject: RE: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form I am not sure that NOOD is really the best opportunity for development for HS sailors. Yes, it will have the hot sailors in it, probably leaving the general mass of HS sailors in the back of the fleet. It seems to me that the PNW V-15 fleet could choose to hold a regatta (or more than one) that they organize and promote themselves. Then costs could be set as considered appropriate by the fleet. (Perhaps the fees will end up just as high when calculated). With proper publicity and PNW fleet enthusiasm, such a regatta could be well attended by all levels of ability. And I think the tendency to share what one knows with the less experienced would be greater. Sort of like the informal bush regattas that the Tasars held, I guess. I do think it is important that all sailors that are experienced and racing support US Sailing with membership. Without rules and US Sailing we have no game. Newbies should be made aware of US Sailing and encouraged to join. S Kaseler -----Original Message----- From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] On Behalf Of John Schalka Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 12:54 PM To: DB; PNW_V15 Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form I cannot help stepping in here. I happened to be at the meeting where the fees were set and I know a lot of thought was put into trying to keep them contained for the centerboard classes. It happens that NOOD is a for profit organization so our control was limited relative to the previous SOCKS regatta. Still, I think the fees are generally reasonable for a high level event. I agree with Peter that this would be a good experience for anyone interested in sailing. John Schalka -----Original Message----- From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] On Behalf Of DB Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:57 AM To: PNW_V15 Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form I'm sure it comes as no surprise that I'm still looking forward to the event and am ready to sign up. Dean ----- Original Message ---- From: "hebardmf at myuw.net" To: "Trunkey, Steve - CKJH" Cc: Peter Shorett ; DB ; PNW_V15 Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:43:46 AM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form Well said by Steve. I suspect the Port Townsend and Port Angeles fleets have the same sentiments. We still don't have the immediate question answered: Are there 10 (or 6) V15s that will register for this, excluding the High School Programs as part of the 10 (or 6)? Maybe 6, probably not 10. I wonder if a NOOD V15 fleet can form without enlisting the help of the High School Programs. -- Matt On Mon, 24 Mar 2008, Trunkey, Steve - CKJH wrote: > It seems maybe some further clarification might be useful. My > comments are not negativity, but rather just reflecting where our > program and several others are at this point. We are not affiliated > with any yacht club or other wealthy organization, and our kids are > typically raw beginners who have come to our program as teenagers with > no previous sailing experience. So, a student who stepped into a boat > for the first time in their lives three weeks ago doesn't have > National Championships, US Sailing membership, and competing against > year round programs with paid coaches in mind. > > I think it's great that those opportunities are out there for kids, > but we aren't there yet. > > However, I think we should want to expand the sport so that kids like > ours might ultimately get there - maybe at the collegiate level and > then someday buying their own boat, etc. That means opening the > "higher level of competition" up to all kids. Maybe if we really want > them to have membership in US Sailing we could make the total fee for > this regatta $25 for high school sailors and they could come away with > both the experience of high level competition and membership in the > organization. Know also that operating a community based sailing > program takes hundreds of hours already, so every added complication > such as raising funds for one regatta, represents a formidable > challenge. > > ________________________________ > > From: Peter Shorett [mailto:pshorett at gvakm.com] > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 9:15 AM > To: Trunkey, Steve - CKJH; DB; PNW_V15 > Subject: RE: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > > > I am a little surprised that there is such negative discussion on this. > > > > > The reason for encouraging teams to attend these types of events is to > raise the level of competition - to expose sailors to a higher level > of competition. Last year, we heavily promoted the V15 PCC's in the Gorge. > There were 20+ boats, with some of the best sailors in the area > competing and teams actually came up from California. > > > > Having been to several HS National Championships myself and watching > our kids generally get clobbered (that's putting in mildly), teams in > the NW District have to expand their sailing horizons' from their local level. > There have been many great sailors pass through the ranks of the NW > District; they have all become great sailors by participating in > regattas that take them to the next level like NOOD (formerly SOCKS), > Sears Cup, Bemis, Laser NA's, etc. > > > > Most all of your competition (every other HS outside of the NW > District) is doing this and more. Many schools have full time paid > coaches, year round sailing conditions and top cabin competition. > Certainly the NW District sailing program is much better off in terms > of regatta scheduling and clinics that it was 5 years ago, but if > teams in the District HS do not continue to embrace a greater playing > field, then development of the program will falter. > > > > If its about $$'s, then consider contacting your local yacht club for > sponsorship (even if they are not a member), contact the Sailing > Foundation (I bet they would be willing to sponsor a kid who finds the > cost of entry prohibitive) or better yet, put it in your HS Sailing > team budget. > > > > Hope to see you all there. And if you need a boat to sail, let me or > Burke know, he has a trailer load of them. > > > > Peter > > > > ________________________________ > > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] > On Behalf Of Trunkey, Steve - CKJH > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 7:45 AM > To: DB; PNW_V15 > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > > > I believe Matt is correct. Speaking for the Central Kitsap Team, I > would guess the difference would be somewhere between 0 and 6 boats > from our program. If it's expensive and requires membership in US > Sailing we likely won't be there. CK, like many of the high school > programs, is a community based program. We have kids from modest > upbringings that found even the $79 registration fee for 3 months of sailing expensive. > Some of these kids will catch the sailing fever, become successful > working adults, and eventually become leaders in the sailing community. > For now, we should be drawing them into the sport and making it > accessible. > > As for the social ticket - it looks like a good deal for me > personally, but I'm not likely to take high school kids into the > typical yacht club social setting. We would race and head home and > eat from our brown bags. > > -----Original Message----- > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org > ] On Behalf Of hebardmf at myuw.net > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:18 PM > To: Peter Shorett > Cc: pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > Uhh, did we need to be members to US Sailing for SOCKS last year? What > about the CGRA One-Design? CYC Seattle One-Design? Turkey Bowl? If we > did, I guess I owe someone some $$.... But all that is beside the point. > Here's the real issue for "the fleet": > > Can the V15 fleet get 6 boats/skippers registered, who are members of > US Sailing, prior to April 28th (after the 28th there is a $50 late > fee so it becomes ridiculously expensive then) WITHOUT having to rely > on High School Sailors to be some of the 6 boats? If the V15 fleet > can, then MAYBE the V15s will have there own start. Or, maybe V15s > will start with another fleet (Tasars) and be scored separately. If > the V15ers want to be assured their own start, we need 10 boats > registered. (This is all from the NOR, paragraph 3.2). So, try to name > 10 V15ers who will do this regatta WITHOUT relying on the High School > fleets (Orcas, Port Townsend, Central Kitsap, Bainbridge, Friday Harbor, Port Angeles)... > > 1) Dean B. > 2) Peter S. > 3) Zig B. > 4)? > 5)? > 6)? > 7)? > 8)? > 9)? > 10)? > > Kinda hard, isn't it? I like Dean's approach: make it cheaper, > somehow, for the High School kids. That may make it more likely a > fleet will form in time. I frankly, don't know how many High School > Sailors (i.e., those involved in the NWISA circuit) are members of US > Sailing. Maybe there are more than I know, but I doubt it. I do know > that it will be a tough sell to get some families to fork over $25 for > the Youth US Sailing membership on top of an already hefty $75 entry fee for a TWO day event. > (Read the NOR, centerboard fleets are Sat. & Sun.). > > This fleet relies on the High School crowd. We should advocate for > them as well. > > > > ________________________________ > > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] > On Behalf Of DB > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:11 AM > To: PNW_V15 > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > According to the NOR, and dialogs I've had with race organizers, the 2 > day format from SOCKS was going to be retained for the centerboard > classes in order to facilitate HS sailor schedules. Only keelboats > would sail for 3 days. The fact that the prices don't reflect this > fact strikes me as an oversight. > > > > Dean > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Jim Lyle > To: DB ; PNW_V15 > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:10:47 PM > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > Dean, > > I understand your concern. However, a youth US Sailing membership is > only $25 and only the skipper needs to apply. If the youth wants to > sail in any US Sailing championship, including the local Junior > Olympics in August they will need to be members. For a three day event > that makes the entry and membership $100. No one would complain about > 3 days of golf costing that much. It's certainly cheaper than 3 days > of snow boarding. I'm not sure how you give 2 day pricing for a 3 day event. > > I'm not involved with planning the event at all. But 3 days on the > water is not cheap and then throw in social events and $33 a day > doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I find it hard to go out to dinner > for $33 per person these days. > > I'm completely with you that cost is something we need to work on to > promote our sport. But I'm afraid the days of $25 regattas have past - > right along with gas under $2/gallon. > > Jim Lyle > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: DB > To: PNW_V15 > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 12:45:31 PM > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > I would like to explore alternative pricing. I am drafting a letter > to the organizers expressing our concerns. I would like to offer > pricing alternatives. There are a few points that are particularly troublesome. > > 1. US Sailing membership - At most regattas, US Sailing membership is > not mandatory and can be applied towards a discount for those with > membership. Here it works the other way around and introduces > considerable expense. > 2. 2 day pricing - It looks like the pricing schedule is for a 3 day > event. > 3. Youth pricing - I would like to see a discount for youth and HS > sailors. > > I'm going to send it off tomorrow morning. If you have any > suggestions, I would like to hear them. > > Dean > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: B&B Thomas > To: hebardmf at myuw.net; DB > Cc: PNW_V15 > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:09:19 AM > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > That kind of entry fee for a two day regatta will make it very > difficult for high school sailors to participate Burke > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "DB" > Cc: "PNW_V15" > Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:58 PM > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > >> Hmm. So the regatta entry fee for me is $135.00 b/c I'm not a US > Sailing >> member....yet. Great. >> >> >> On Sat, 22 Mar 2008, DB wrote: >> >>> Attached is the entry form for the Seattle NOOD. Can't wait to see >>> everybody out there. >>> >>> Dean >>> >>> >>> >>> > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > ____________ >>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. >>> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pnw-v15 mailing list >> Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org >> http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 >> >> > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > ____________ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping > _______________________________________________ > Pnw-v15 mailing list > Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try > it now. > 62 > sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20> > > ________________________________________________________________________ ____________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping _______________________________________________ Pnw-v15 mailing list Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 _______________________________________________ Pnw-v15 mailing list Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping From bergstro2 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 24 19:40:15 2008 From: bergstro2 at yahoo.com (DB) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 16:40:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form Message-ID: <804525.18624.qm@web31605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I wasthinking about that very thing. As anOSU Crew team alumni, I routinely make a donation in spite of the fact that Ihaven?t rowed in 15 years. I would considerdonating to a sailing team, especially if the donation were applied towards bringing competitors to a regatta that I was competing in! Big events are an important part of the competitive experience so we should encourage as many people to participate as possible. As an alternative source of funding, I would be happy to wear or carry a sponsor's advertising if it meant that we'd giving an opportunity to young sailors. Dean ----- Original Message ---- From: Scott Boye To: Peter Shorett ; hebardmf at myuw.net; "Trunkey, Steve - CKJH" Cc: PNW_V15 Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:18:30 PM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;} I've held back from commenting, but since Peter has poked and prodded.... You have seen it from me and Burke before, we'll show up with a couple of trailers full of boats for just about any regatta the group wants to race in. First priority goes to High Schoolers from Friday Harbor for my boats, and Burke would probably say the same regarding Orcas high schoolers but from there on out, the boats will be available for charter for what amounts to transportation costs. Regarding US Sailing membership, ISSA (the governing body of High School sailing) got caught flat-footed on the membership requirement. Jim Capron claims to have spoken to the president of ISSA but the prez doesn't seem to have any memory of a specific agreement. The discussion has been burning up the ISSA directors list-serve this past week. Nation-wide there are about 5000 - 6000 kids sailing in high school programs and to add a youth membership to each of their team enrollment fees is a burden to the kids and a huge cash cow for US Sailing. Regarding the level of competition, some of the high school sailors are pretty good, some are brand new to sailing. By the time NOOD rolls around, a couple of the kids on the Friday Harbor team will have about eight weeks of sailing experience. Think about how good of a racer you were when you had a couple of months under your belt. Regarding the race entry fee, it's a little steep for high schoolers and that will hold some of them back. Here's an idea. How about if the adults in the fleet offer to subsidize the entry fees for any skipper under 18 years old? Step up and offer to cover a portion of a budding sailor's cost. Think about it. Scott Boye, Friday Harbor > Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:36:33 -0700 > From: pshorett at gvakm.com > To: hebardmf at myuw.net; SteveT at cksd.wednet.edu > CC: pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > V15's at NOOD would not happen without HS support, there simply are not > be enough boats/sailors in the Seattle Portland area to make it work. > > Burke and Scott have been huge supporters of stepping out of the box by > bringing boats for these events. Burke has said he is bringing 5 boats > on a trailer to NOOD, with a few HS sailors leaving a few boats > available for HS alum or other invitees. I don't know what Scott is up > to, but with a poke and a prod...... We also have the help of Dean from > Portland who is rallying that fleet, although they probably will not > bring more than a couple boats (right Dean?). And you get me, Zig and > maybe a few other boats from PMYC. > > Big thanks go to Burke and Scott who have helped tremendously in > establishing V15 presence at higher caliber regattas. For CYC One > Design in October 2006, they brought 10 or so boats on a trailer and > packed 'em with HS sailors and alums. With the other boats, I think we > had 13 boats registered and on the water. At SOCKS in 2007, we had a > similar turn out, and at the PCC's in the Gorge, we had an even higher > caliber 20 boat regatta with numerous college level sailors and adults, > and a few HS kids - Stellmacher, Renehan, for example. > > Continued success of the V15 Fleet can not rely on just a couple of > people person waving the flag - others to step up. This is still a > fleet in development - without HS support, it will loose one of its > primary drivers. > > The progress in HS Sailing's development is hindered because it lacks an > active double handed class that better matches HS & college sailing > programs than Tasars, the only real active double handed boat with any > energy in the NW area. Travel around the country, there are plenty of > quality regattas for 420's or FJ's. Given the critical mass of V15's > under HS related ownership, why not make that the dominate class to put > HS kids in? I count 40+ V15's in the HS Sailing system and another 20 > non HS owned boats in the Seattle area, plus Portland's 15 or so boats. > That's a pretty good fleet right there! > > I am very happy to see that the listserve is alive and well, and that > people are using it to express their interest in V15 sailing. Let's put > this energy to good use and develop the V15 Class into something where > we will want to pay the $75 dollars to go race! > > Peter > > -----Original Message----- > From: hebardmf at myuw.net [mailto:hebardmf at myuw.net] > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:44 AM > To: Trunkey, Steve - CKJH > Cc: Peter Shorett; DB; PNW_V15 > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > Well said by Steve. I suspect the Port Townsend and Port Angeles fleets > have the same sentiments. > > We still don't have the immediate question answered: Are there 10 (or > 6) V15s that will register for this, excluding the High School Programs > as part of the 10 (or 6)? > > Maybe 6, probably not 10. > > I wonder if a NOOD V15 fleet can form without enlisting the help of the > High School Programs. > > -- Matt > > > On Mon, 24 Mar 2008, Trunkey, Steve - CKJH wrote: > > > It seems maybe some further clarification might be useful. My > comments > > are not negativity, but rather just reflecting where our program and > > several others are at this point. We are not affiliated with any > yacht > > club or other wealthy organization, and our kids are typically raw > > beginners who have come to our program as teenagers with no previous > > sailing experience. So, a student who stepped into a boat for the > first > > time in their lives three weeks ago doesn't have National > Championships, > > US Sailing membership, and competing against year round programs with > > paid coaches in mind. > > > > I think it's great that those opportunities are out there for kids, > but > > we aren't there yet. > > > > However, I think we should want to expand the sport so that kids like > > ours might ultimately get there - maybe at the collegiate level and > then > > someday buying their own boat, etc. That means opening the "higher > > level of competition" up to all kids. Maybe if we really want them to > > have membership in US Sailing we could make the total fee for this > > regatta $25 for high school sailors and they could come away with both > > the experience of high level competition and membership in the > > organization. Know also that operating a community based sailing > > program takes hundreds of hours already, so every added complication > > such as raising funds for one regatta, represents a formidable > > challenge. > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Peter Shorett [mailto:pshorett at gvakm.com] > > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 9:15 AM > > To: Trunkey, Steve - CKJH; DB; PNW_V15 > > Subject: RE: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > > > > > > > I am a little surprised that there is such negative discussion on > this. > > > > > > > > > > The reason for encouraging teams to attend these types of events is to > > raise the level of competition - to expose sailors to a higher level > of > > competition. Last year, we heavily promoted the V15 PCC's in the > Gorge. > > There were 20+ boats, with some of the best sailors in the area > > competing and teams actually came up from California. > > > > > > > > Having been to several HS National Championships myself and watching > our > > kids generally get clobbered (that's putting in mildly), teams in the > NW > > District have to expand their sailing horizons' from their local > level. > > There have been many great sailors pass through the ranks of the NW > > District; they have all become great sailors by participating in > > regattas that take them to the next level like NOOD (formerly SOCKS), > > Sears Cup, Bemis, Laser NA's, etc. > > > > > > > > Most all of your competition (every other HS outside of the NW > District) > > is doing this and more. Many schools have full time paid coaches, > year > > round sailing conditions and top cabin competition. Certainly the NW > > District sailing program is much better off in terms of regatta > > scheduling and clinics that it was 5 years ago, but if teams in the > > District HS do not continue to embrace a greater playing field, then > > development of the program will falter. > > > > > > > > If its about $$'s, then consider contacting your local yacht club for > > sponsorship (even if they are not a member), contact the Sailing > > Foundation (I bet they would be willing to sponsor a kid who finds the > > cost of entry prohibitive) or better yet, put it in your HS Sailing > team > > budget. > > > > > > > > Hope to see you all there. And if you need a boat to sail, let me or > > Burke know, he has a trailer load of them. > > > > > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] > > On Behalf Of Trunkey, Steve - CKJH > > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 7:45 AM > > To: DB; PNW_V15 > > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > > > > > > > I believe Matt is correct. Speaking for the Central Kitsap Team, I > would > > guess the difference would be somewhere between 0 and 6 boats from our > > program. If it's expensive and requires membership in US Sailing we > > likely won't be there. CK, like many of the high school programs, is > a > > community based program. We have kids from modest upbringings that > > found even the $79 registration fee for 3 months of sailing expensive. > > Some of these kids will catch the sailing fever, become successful > > working adults, and eventually become leaders in the sailing > community. > > For now, we should be drawing them into the sport and making it > > accessible. > > > > As for the social ticket - it looks like a good deal for me > personally, > > but I'm not likely to take high school kids into the typical yacht > club > > social setting. We would race and head home and eat from our brown > > bags. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org > > ] On Behalf Of hebardmf at myuw.net > > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:18 PM > > To: Peter Shorett > > Cc: pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > > > Uhh, did we need to be members to US Sailing for SOCKS last year? What > > about the CGRA One-Design? CYC Seattle One-Design? Turkey Bowl? If we > > did, I guess I owe someone some $$.... But all that is beside the > point. > > Here's the real issue for "the fleet": > > > > Can the V15 fleet get 6 boats/skippers registered, who are members of > US > > Sailing, prior to April 28th (after the 28th there is a $50 late fee > so > > it becomes ridiculously expensive then) WITHOUT having to rely on High > > School Sailors to be some of the 6 boats? If the V15 fleet can, then > > MAYBE the V15s will have there own start. Or, maybe V15s will start > with > > another fleet (Tasars) and be scored separately. If the V15ers want to > > be assured their own start, we need 10 boats registered. (This is all > > from the NOR, paragraph 3.2). So, try to name 10 V15ers who will do > this > > regatta WITHOUT relying on the High School fleets (Orcas, Port > Townsend, > > Central Kitsap, Bainbridge, Friday Harbor, Port Angeles)... > > > > 1) Dean B. > > 2) Peter S. > > 3) Zig B. > > 4)? > > 5)? > > 6)? > > 7)? > > 8)? > > 9)? > > 10)? > > > > Kinda hard, isn't it? I like Dean's approach: make it cheaper, > somehow, > > for the High School kids. That may make it more likely a fleet will > form > > in time. I frankly, don't know how many High School Sailors (i.e., > those > > involved in the NWISA circuit) are members of US Sailing. Maybe there > > are more than I know, but I doubt it. I do know that it will be a > tough > > sell to get some families to fork over $25 for the Youth US Sailing > > membership on top of an already hefty $75 entry fee for a TWO day > event. > > (Read the NOR, centerboard fleets are Sat. & Sun.). > > > > This fleet relies on the High School crowd. We should advocate for > them > > as well. > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] > > On Behalf Of DB > > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:11 AM > > To: PNW_V15 > > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > > > According to the NOR, and dialogs I've had with race organizers, the 2 > > day format from SOCKS was going to be retained for the centerboard > > classes in order to facilitate HS sailor schedules. Only keelboats > > would sail for 3 days. The fact that the prices don't reflect this > fact > > strikes me as an oversight. > > > > > > > > Dean > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Jim Lyle > > To: DB ; PNW_V15 > > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:10:47 PM > > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > > > Dean, > > > > I understand your concern. However, a youth US Sailing membership is > > only $25 and only the skipper needs to apply. If the youth wants to > sail > > in any US Sailing championship, including the local Junior Olympics in > > August they will need to be members. For a three day event that makes > > the entry and membership $100. No one would complain about 3 days of > > golf costing that much. It's certainly cheaper than 3 days of snow > > boarding. I'm not sure how you give 2 day pricing for a 3 day event. > > > > I'm not involved with planning the event at all. But 3 days on the > water > > is not cheap and then throw in social events and $33 a day doesn't > seem > > unreasonable to me. I find it hard to go out to dinner for $33 per > > person these days. > > > > I'm completely with you that cost is something we need to work on to > > promote our sport. But I'm afraid the days of $25 regattas have past - > > right along with gas under $2/gallon. > > > > Jim Lyle > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: DB > > To: PNW_V15 > > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 12:45:31 PM > > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > > > I would like to explore alternative pricing. I am drafting a letter > to > > the organizers expressing our concerns. I would like to offer pricing > > alternatives. There are a few points that are particularly > troublesome. > > > > 1. US Sailing membership - At most regattas, US Sailing membership is > > not mandatory and can be applied towards a discount for those with > > membership. Here it works the other way around and introduces > > considerable expense. > > 2. 2 day pricing - It looks like the pricing schedule is for a 3 day > > event. > > 3. Youth pricing - I would like to see a discount for youth and HS > > sailors. > > > > I'm going to send it off tomorrow morning. If you have any > suggestions, > > I would like to hear them. > > > > Dean > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: B&B Thomas > > To: hebardmf at myuw.net; DB > > Cc: PNW_V15 > > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:09:19 AM > > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > > > That kind of entry fee for a two day regatta will make it very > > difficult > > for high school sailors to participate > > Burke > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: "DB" > > Cc: "PNW_V15" > > Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:58 PM > > Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > > > > > >> Hmm. So the regatta entry fee for me is $135.00 b/c I'm not a US > > Sailing > >> member....yet. Great. > >> > >> > >> On Sat, 22 Mar 2008, DB wrote: > >> > >>> Attached is the entry form for the Seattle NOOD. Can't wait to see > >>> everybody out there. > >>> > >>> Dean > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > ____________ > >>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > >>> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Pnw-v15 mailing list > >> Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > >> http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > ____________ > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping > > _______________________________________________ > > Pnw-v15 mailing list > > Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > > http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try > > it now. > > > > sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pnw-v15 mailing list > Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 Watch ?Cause Effect,? a show about real people making a real difference. Learn more. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erik_coburn at hotmail.com Tue Mar 25 03:08:03 2008 From: erik_coburn at hotmail.com (Erik Coburn) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 07:08:03 +0000 Subject: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form In-Reply-To: <804525.18624.qm@web31605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <804525.18624.qm@web31605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: _________________________________________________________________ How well do you know your celebrity gossip? http://originals.msn.com/thebigdebate?ocid=T002MSN03N0707A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brianl at seattleyachtclub.org Thu Mar 27 13:37:45 2008 From: brianl at seattleyachtclub.org (Brian Ledbetter) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:37:45 -0700 Subject: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form In-Reply-To: <8789592E4638AB4A969D5E4662978B2907C7E45E@MAIL.cksd.wednet.edu> Message-ID: <20080327172552.B262036C319@ded-230-78.m5hosting.com> The Entry Form and other information is now more clearly organized at: http://www.sailingworld.com/nood_regatta.jsp?location=2637 Looking forward to seeing how many V-15's we can get to the regatta! Brian Brian Ledbetter Sailing Director, Seattle Yacht Club BrianL at SeattleYachtClub.org 206.926.1011 _____ From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] On Behalf Of Trunkey, Steve - CKJH Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 10:12 AM To: Peter Shorett; DB; PNW_V15 Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form It seems maybe some further clarification might be useful. My comments are not negativity, but rather just reflecting where our program and several others are at this point. We are not affiliated with any yacht club or other wealthy organization, and our kids are typically raw beginners who have come to our program as teenagers with no previous sailing experience. So, a student who stepped into a boat for the first time in their lives three weeks ago doesn't have National Championships, US Sailing membership, and competing against year round programs with paid coaches in mind. I think it's great that those opportunities are out there for kids, but we aren't there yet. However, I think we should want to expand the sport so that kids like ours might ultimately get there - maybe at the collegiate level and then someday buying their own boat, etc. That means opening the "higher level of competition" up to all kids. Maybe if we really want them to have membership in US Sailing we could make the total fee for this regatta $25 for high school sailors and they could come away with both the experience of high level competition and membership in the organization. Know also that operating a community based sailing program takes hundreds of hours already, so every added complication such as raising funds for one regatta, represents a formidable challenge. _____ From: Peter Shorett [mailto:pshorett at gvakm.com] Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 9:15 AM To: Trunkey, Steve - CKJH; DB; PNW_V15 Subject: RE: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form I am a little surprised that there is such negative discussion on this. The reason for encouraging teams to attend these types of events is to raise the level of competition - to expose sailors to a higher level of competition. Last year, we heavily promoted the V15 PCC's in the Gorge. There were 20+ boats, with some of the best sailors in the area competing and teams actually came up from California. Having been to several HS National Championships myself and watching our kids generally get clobbered (that's putting in mildly), teams in the NW District have to expand their sailing horizons' from their local level. There have been many great sailors pass through the ranks of the NW District; they have all become great sailors by participating in regattas that take them to the next level like NOOD (formerly SOCKS), Sears Cup, Bemis, Laser NA's, etc. Most all of your competition (every other HS outside of the NW District) is doing this and more. Many schools have full time paid coaches, year round sailing conditions and top cabin competition. Certainly the NW District sailing program is much better off in terms of regatta scheduling and clinics that it was 5 years ago, but if teams in the District HS do not continue to embrace a greater playing field, then development of the program will falter. If its about $$'s, then consider contacting your local yacht club for sponsorship (even if they are not a member), contact the Sailing Foundation (I bet they would be willing to sponsor a kid who finds the cost of entry prohibitive) or better yet, put it in your HS Sailing team budget. Hope to see you all there. And if you need a boat to sail, let me or Burke know, he has a trailer load of them. Peter _____ From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] On Behalf Of Trunkey, Steve - CKJH Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 7:45 AM To: DB; PNW_V15 Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form I believe Matt is correct. Speaking for the Central Kitsap Team, I would guess the difference would be somewhere between 0 and 6 boats from our program. If it's expensive and requires membership in US Sailing we likely won't be there. CK, like many of the high school programs, is a community based program. We have kids from modest upbringings that found even the $79 registration fee for 3 months of sailing expensive. Some of these kids will catch the sailing fever, become successful working adults, and eventually become leaders in the sailing community. For now, we should be drawing them into the sport and making it accessible. As for the social ticket - it looks like a good deal for me personally, but I'm not likely to take high school kids into the typical yacht club social setting. We would race and head home and eat from our brown bags. -----Original Message----- From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [ mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] On Behalf Of hebardmf at myuw.net Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:18 PM To: Peter Shorett Cc: pnw-v15 at myfleet.org Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form Uhh, did we need to be members to US Sailing for SOCKS last year? What about the CGRA One-Design? CYC Seattle One-Design? Turkey Bowl? If we did, I guess I owe someone some $$.... But all that is beside the point. Here's the real issue for "the fleet": Can the V15 fleet get 6 boats/skippers registered, who are members of US Sailing, prior to April 28th (after the 28th there is a $50 late fee so it becomes ridiculously expensive then) WITHOUT having to rely on High School Sailors to be some of the 6 boats? If the V15 fleet can, then MAYBE the V15s will have there own start. Or, maybe V15s will start with another fleet (Tasars) and be scored separately. If the V15ers want to be assured their own start, we need 10 boats registered. (This is all from the NOR, paragraph 3.2). So, try to name 10 V15ers who will do this regatta WITHOUT relying on the High School fleets (Orcas, Port Townsend, Central Kitsap, Bainbridge, Friday Harbor, Port Angeles)... 1) Dean B. 2) Peter S. 3) Zig B. 4)? 5)? 6)? 7)? 8)? 9)? 10)? Kinda hard, isn't it? I like Dean's approach: make it cheaper, somehow, for the High School kids. That may make it more likely a fleet will form in time. I frankly, don't know how many High School Sailors (i.e., those involved in the NWISA circuit) are members of US Sailing. Maybe there are more than I know, but I doubt it. I do know that it will be a tough sell to get some families to fork over $25 for the Youth US Sailing membership on top of an already hefty $75 entry fee for a TWO day event. (Read the NOR, centerboard fleets are Sat. & Sun.). This fleet relies on the High School crowd. We should advocate for them as well. _____ From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org] On Behalf Of DB Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:11 AM To: PNW_V15 Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form According to the NOR, and dialogs I've had with race organizers, the 2 day format from SOCKS was going to be retained for the centerboard classes in order to facilitate HS sailor schedules. Only keelboats would sail for 3 days. The fact that the prices don't reflect this fact strikes me as an oversight. Dean ----- Original Message ---- From: Jim Lyle To: DB ; PNW_V15 Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:10:47 PM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form Dean, I understand your concern. However, a youth US Sailing membership is only $25 and only the skipper needs to apply. If the youth wants to sail in any US Sailing championship, including the local Junior Olympics in August they will need to be members. For a three day event that makes the entry and membership $100. No one would complain about 3 days of golf costing that much. It's certainly cheaper than 3 days of snow boarding. I'm not sure how you give 2 day pricing for a 3 day event. I'm not involved with planning the event at all. But 3 days on the water is not cheap and then throw in social events and $33 a day doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I find it hard to go out to dinner for $33 per person these days. I'm completely with you that cost is something we need to work on to promote our sport. But I'm afraid the days of $25 regattas have past - right along with gas under $2/gallon. Jim Lyle ----- Original Message ---- From: DB To: PNW_V15 Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 12:45:31 PM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form I would like to explore alternative pricing. I am drafting a letter to the organizers expressing our concerns. I would like to offer pricing alternatives. There are a few points that are particularly troublesome. 1. US Sailing membership - At most regattas, US Sailing membership is not mandatory and can be applied towards a discount for those with membership. Here it works the other way around and introduces considerable expense. 2. 2 day pricing - It looks like the pricing schedule is for a 3 day event. 3. Youth pricing - I would like to see a discount for youth and HS sailors. I'm going to send it off tomorrow morning. If you have any suggestions, I would like to hear them. Dean ----- Original Message ---- From: B&B Thomas To: hebardmf at myuw.net; DB Cc: PNW_V15 Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:09:19 AM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form That kind of entry fee for a two day regatta will make it very difficult for high school sailors to participate Burke ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "DB" Cc: "PNW_V15" Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form > Hmm. So the regatta entry fee for me is $135.00 b/c I'm not a US Sailing > member....yet. Great. > > > On Sat, 22 Mar 2008, DB wrote: > >> Attached is the entry form for the Seattle NOOD. Can't wait to see >> everybody out there. >> >> Dean >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ >> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. >> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > _______________________________________________ > Pnw-v15 mailing list > Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org > http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping _______________________________________________ Pnw-v15 mailing list Pnw-v15 at myfleet.org http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/pnw-v15 _____ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bergstro2 at yahoo.com Sat Mar 29 19:43:12 2008 From: bergstro2 at yahoo.com (DB) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 16:43:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pnw-v15] Vanguard 15 wanted Message-ID: <95693.2661.qm@web31607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I got a response for this but lost the message along the way. If you had a boat, please resend your reply directly to me. Dean ----- Original Message ---- From: DB To: PNW_V15 Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 8:53:12 PM Subject: Vanguard 15 wanted A gentleman in Seattle contacted me and said that he was looking for a used V15. Anybody interested in selling their boat should contact me directly. Dean ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs