I cannot help stepping in here. I happened to be at the meeting where
the fees were set and I know a lot of thought was put into trying to
keep them contained for the centerboard classes. It happens that NOOD
is a for profit organization so our control was limited relative to the
previous SOCKS regatta. Still, I think the fees are generally
reasonable for a high level event. I agree with Peter that this would
be a good experience for anyone interested in sailing.
John Schalka
-----Original Message-----
From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org]
On Behalf Of DB
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:57 AM
To: PNW_V15
Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form
I'm sure it comes as no surprise that I'm still looking forward to the
event and am ready to sign up.
Dean
----- Original Message ----
From: "hebardmf at myuw.net" <hebardmf at myuw.net>
To: "Trunkey, Steve - CKJH" <SteveT at cksd.wednet.edu>
Cc: Peter Shorett <pshorett at gvakm.com>; DB <bergstro2 at yahoo.com>;
PNW_V15 <pnw-v15 at myfleet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:43:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form
Well said by Steve. I suspect the Port Townsend and Port Angeles fleets
have the same sentiments.
We still don't have the immediate question answered: Are there 10 (or
6) V15s that will register for this, excluding the High School Programs
as part of the 10 (or 6)?
Maybe 6, probably not 10.
I wonder if a NOOD V15 fleet can form without enlisting the help of the
High School Programs.
-- Matt
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008, Trunkey, Steve - CKJH wrote:
> It seems maybe some further clarification might be useful. My
> comments are not negativity, but rather just reflecting where our
> program and several others are at this point. We are not affiliated
> with any yacht club or other wealthy organization, and our kids are
> typically raw beginners who have come to our program as teenagers with
> no previous sailing experience. So, a student who stepped into a boat
> for the first time in their lives three weeks ago doesn't have
> National Championships, US Sailing membership, and competing against
> year round programs with paid coaches in mind.
>> I think it's great that those opportunities are out there for kids,
> but we aren't there yet.
>> However, I think we should want to expand the sport so that kids like
> ours might ultimately get there - maybe at the collegiate level and
> then someday buying their own boat, etc. That means opening the
> "higher level of competition" up to all kids. Maybe if we really want
> them to have membership in US Sailing we could make the total fee for
> this regatta $25 for high school sailors and they could come away with
> both the experience of high level competition and membership in the
> organization. Know also that operating a community based sailing
> program takes hundreds of hours already, so every added complication
> such as raising funds for one regatta, represents a formidable
> challenge.
>> ________________________________
>> From: Peter Shorett [mailto:pshorett at gvakm.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 9:15 AM
> To: Trunkey, Steve - CKJH; DB; PNW_V15
> Subject: RE: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form
>>>> I am a little surprised that there is such negative discussion on
this.
>>>>> The reason for encouraging teams to attend these types of events is to
> raise the level of competition - to expose sailors to a higher level
> of competition. Last year, we heavily promoted the V15 PCC's in the
Gorge.
> There were 20+ boats, with some of the best sailors in the area
> competing and teams actually came up from California.
>>>> Having been to several HS National Championships myself and watching
> our kids generally get clobbered (that's putting in mildly), teams in
> the NW District have to expand their sailing horizons' from their
local level.
> There have been many great sailors pass through the ranks of the NW
> District; they have all become great sailors by participating in
> regattas that take them to the next level like NOOD (formerly SOCKS),
> Sears Cup, Bemis, Laser NA's, etc.
>>>> Most all of your competition (every other HS outside of the NW
> District) is doing this and more. Many schools have full time paid
> coaches, year round sailing conditions and top cabin competition.
> Certainly the NW District sailing program is much better off in terms
> of regatta scheduling and clinics that it was 5 years ago, but if
> teams in the District HS do not continue to embrace a greater playing
> field, then development of the program will falter.
>>>> If its about $$'s, then consider contacting your local yacht club for
> sponsorship (even if they are not a member), contact the Sailing
> Foundation (I bet they would be willing to sponsor a kid who finds the
> cost of entry prohibitive) or better yet, put it in your HS Sailing
> team budget.
>>>> Hope to see you all there. And if you need a boat to sail, let me or
> Burke know, he has a trailer load of them.
>>>> Peter
>>>> ________________________________
>> From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org]
> On Behalf Of Trunkey, Steve - CKJH
> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 7:45 AM
> To: DB; PNW_V15
> Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form
>>>> I believe Matt is correct. Speaking for the Central Kitsap Team, I
> would guess the difference would be somewhere between 0 and 6 boats
> from our program. If it's expensive and requires membership in US
> Sailing we likely won't be there. CK, like many of the high school
> programs, is a community based program. We have kids from modest
> upbringings that found even the $79 registration fee for 3 months of
sailing expensive.
> Some of these kids will catch the sailing fever, become successful
> working adults, and eventually become leaders in the sailing
community.
> For now, we should be drawing them into the sport and making it
> accessible.
>> As for the social ticket - it looks like a good deal for me
> personally, but I'm not likely to take high school kids into the
> typical yacht club social setting. We would race and head home and
> eat from our brown bags.
>> -----Original Message-----
> From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org> <mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org> ] On Behalf Of hebardmf at myuw.net> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:18 PM
> To: Peter Shorett
> Cc: pnw-v15 at myfleet.org> Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form
>> Uhh, did we need to be members to US Sailing for SOCKS last year? What
> about the CGRA One-Design? CYC Seattle One-Design? Turkey Bowl? If we
> did, I guess I owe someone some $$.... But all that is beside the
point.
> Here's the real issue for "the fleet":
>> Can the V15 fleet get 6 boats/skippers registered, who are members of
> US Sailing, prior to April 28th (after the 28th there is a $50 late
> fee so it becomes ridiculously expensive then) WITHOUT having to rely
> on High School Sailors to be some of the 6 boats? If the V15 fleet
> can, then MAYBE the V15s will have there own start. Or, maybe V15s
> will start with another fleet (Tasars) and be scored separately. If
> the V15ers want to be assured their own start, we need 10 boats
> registered. (This is all from the NOR, paragraph 3.2). So, try to name
> 10 V15ers who will do this regatta WITHOUT relying on the High School
> fleets (Orcas, Port Townsend, Central Kitsap, Bainbridge, Friday
Harbor, Port Angeles)...
>> 1) Dean B.
> 2) Peter S.
> 3) Zig B.
> 4)?
> 5)?
> 6)?
> 7)?
> 8)?
> 9)?
> 10)?
>> Kinda hard, isn't it? I like Dean's approach: make it cheaper,
> somehow, for the High School kids. That may make it more likely a
> fleet will form in time. I frankly, don't know how many High School
> Sailors (i.e., those involved in the NWISA circuit) are members of US
> Sailing. Maybe there are more than I know, but I doubt it. I do know
> that it will be a tough sell to get some families to fork over $25 for
> the Youth US Sailing membership on top of an already hefty $75 entry
fee for a TWO day event.
> (Read the NOR, centerboard fleets are Sat. & Sun.).
>> This fleet relies on the High School crowd. We should advocate for
> them as well.
>>>> ________________________________
>> From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org]
> On Behalf Of DB
> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:11 AM
> To: PNW_V15
> Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form
>> According to the NOR, and dialogs I've had with race organizers, the 2
> day format from SOCKS was going to be retained for the centerboard
> classes in order to facilitate HS sailor schedules. Only keelboats
> would sail for 3 days. The fact that the prices don't reflect this
> fact strikes me as an oversight.
>>>> Dean
>> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Jim Lyle <jim at lylegroup.com>
> To: DB <bergstro2 at yahoo.com>; PNW_V15 <pnw-v15 at myfleet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:10:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form
>> Dean,
>> I understand your concern. However, a youth US Sailing membership is
> only $25 and only the skipper needs to apply. If the youth wants to
> sail in any US Sailing championship, including the local Junior
> Olympics in August they will need to be members. For a three day event
> that makes the entry and membership $100. No one would complain about
> 3 days of golf costing that much. It's certainly cheaper than 3 days
> of snow boarding. I'm not sure how you give 2 day pricing for a 3 day
event.
>> I'm not involved with planning the event at all. But 3 days on the
> water is not cheap and then throw in social events and $33 a day
> doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I find it hard to go out to dinner
> for $33 per person these days.
>> I'm completely with you that cost is something we need to work on to
> promote our sport. But I'm afraid the days of $25 regattas have past -
> right along with gas under $2/gallon.
>> Jim Lyle
>> ----- Original Message ----
> From: DB <bergstro2 at yahoo.com>
> To: PNW_V15 <pnw-v15 at myfleet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 12:45:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form
>> I would like to explore alternative pricing. I am drafting a letter
> to the organizers expressing our concerns. I would like to offer
> pricing alternatives. There are a few points that are particularly
troublesome.
>> 1. US Sailing membership - At most regattas, US Sailing membership is
> not mandatory and can be applied towards a discount for those with
> membership. Here it works the other way around and introduces
> considerable expense.
> 2. 2 day pricing - It looks like the pricing schedule is for a 3 day
> event.
> 3. Youth pricing - I would like to see a discount for youth and HS
> sailors.
>> I'm going to send it off tomorrow morning. If you have any
> suggestions, I would like to hear them.
>> Dean
>>> ----- Original Message ----
> From: B&B Thomas <woodsong7 at centurytel.net>
> To: hebardmf at myuw.net; DB <bergstro2 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: PNW_V15 <pnw-v15 at myfleet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:09:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form
>> That kind of entry fee for a two day regatta will make it very
> difficult for high school sailors to participate Burke
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <hebardmf at myuw.net>
> To: "DB" <bergstro2 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "PNW_V15" <pnw-v15 at myfleet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form
>>>> Hmm. So the regatta entry fee for me is $135.00 b/c I'm not a US
> Sailing
>> member....yet. Great.
>>>>>> On Sat, 22 Mar 2008, DB wrote:
>>>>> Attached is the entry form for the Seattle NOOD. Can't wait to see
>>> everybody out there.
>>>>>> Dean
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________________
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