I agree with most points, although I'm not so sure that some HS
sailors don't benefit from being shot out the back. It shows them how
far they have to go, and you learn from racing with better people. I
also agree with joining US sailing. You aren't paying for one
regatta, you are paying for a year of membership, as well as
supporting the institution of sailing. Can US Sailing be better?
Sure, but as of mow it's what we've got, and they really do try to
make our sport better. Sorry to chime in when I have little to do
with your fleet, I just wanted to add to Susie's comments.
-Nick
On Mar 24, 2008, at 2:35 PM, Kaselers wrote:
> I am not sure that NOOD is really the best opportunity for
> development for
> HS sailors. Yes, it will have the hot sailors in it, probably
> leaving the
> general mass of HS sailors in the back of the fleet.
> It seems to me that the PNW V-15 fleet could choose to hold a
> regatta (or
> more than one) that they organize and promote themselves. Then
> costs could
> be set as considered appropriate by the fleet. (Perhaps the fees
> will end
> up just as high when calculated). With proper publicity and PNW fleet
> enthusiasm, such a regatta could be well attended by all levels of
> ability.
> And I think the tendency to share what one knows with the less
> experienced
> would be greater. Sort of like the informal bush regattas that the
> Tasars
> held, I guess.
>> I do think it is important that all sailors that are experienced
> and racing
> support US Sailing with membership. Without rules and US Sailing
> we have no
> game.
> Newbies should be made aware of US Sailing and encouraged to join.
>> S Kaseler
>> -----Original Message-----
> From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-
>bounces at myfleet.org] On
> Behalf Of John Schalka
> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 12:54 PM
> To: DB; PNW_V15
> Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form
>>>> I cannot help stepping in here. I happened to be at the meeting where
> the fees were set and I know a lot of thought was put into trying to
> keep them contained for the centerboard classes. It happens that NOOD
> is a for profit organization so our control was limited relative to
> the
> previous SOCKS regatta. Still, I think the fees are generally
> reasonable for a high level event. I agree with Peter that this would
> be a good experience for anyone interested in sailing.
>> John Schalka
>>>> -----Original Message-----
> From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org]
> On Behalf Of DB
> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:57 AM
> To: PNW_V15
> Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form
>> I'm sure it comes as no surprise that I'm still looking forward to the
> event and am ready to sign up.
>> Dean
>> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "hebardmf at myuw.net" <hebardmf at myuw.net>
> To: "Trunkey, Steve - CKJH" <SteveT at cksd.wednet.edu>
> Cc: Peter Shorett <pshorett at gvakm.com>; DB <bergstro2 at yahoo.com>;
> PNW_V15 <pnw-v15 at myfleet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 11:43:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form
>> Well said by Steve. I suspect the Port Townsend and Port Angeles
> fleets
> have the same sentiments.
>> We still don't have the immediate question answered: Are there 10 (or
> 6) V15s that will register for this, excluding the High School
> Programs
> as part of the 10 (or 6)?
>> Maybe 6, probably not 10.
>> I wonder if a NOOD V15 fleet can form without enlisting the help of
> the
> High School Programs.
>> -- Matt
>>> On Mon, 24 Mar 2008, Trunkey, Steve - CKJH wrote:
>>> It seems maybe some further clarification might be useful. My
>> comments are not negativity, but rather just reflecting where our
>> program and several others are at this point. We are not affiliated
>> with any yacht club or other wealthy organization, and our kids are
>> typically raw beginners who have come to our program as teenagers
>> with
>>> no previous sailing experience. So, a student who stepped into a
>> boat
>>> for the first time in their lives three weeks ago doesn't have
>> National Championships, US Sailing membership, and competing against
>> year round programs with paid coaches in mind.
>>>> I think it's great that those opportunities are out there for kids,
>> but we aren't there yet.
>>>> However, I think we should want to expand the sport so that kids like
>> ours might ultimately get there - maybe at the collegiate level and
>> then someday buying their own boat, etc. That means opening the
>> "higher level of competition" up to all kids. Maybe if we really
>> want
>>> them to have membership in US Sailing we could make the total fee for
>> this regatta $25 for high school sailors and they could come away
>> with
>>> both the experience of high level competition and membership in the
>> organization. Know also that operating a community based sailing
>> program takes hundreds of hours already, so every added complication
>> such as raising funds for one regatta, represents a formidable
>> challenge.
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Peter Shorett [mailto:pshorett at gvakm.com]
>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 9:15 AM
>> To: Trunkey, Steve - CKJH; DB; PNW_V15
>> Subject: RE: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form
>>>>>>>> I am a little surprised that there is such negative discussion on
> this.
>>>>>>>>>> The reason for encouraging teams to attend these types of events
>> is to
>>> raise the level of competition - to expose sailors to a higher level
>> of competition. Last year, we heavily promoted the V15 PCC's in the
> Gorge.
>> There were 20+ boats, with some of the best sailors in the area
>> competing and teams actually came up from California.
>>>>>>>> Having been to several HS National Championships myself and watching
>> our kids generally get clobbered (that's putting in mildly), teams in
>> the NW District have to expand their sailing horizons' from their
> local level.
>> There have been many great sailors pass through the ranks of the NW
>> District; they have all become great sailors by participating in
>> regattas that take them to the next level like NOOD (formerly SOCKS),
>> Sears Cup, Bemis, Laser NA's, etc.
>>>>>>>> Most all of your competition (every other HS outside of the NW
>> District) is doing this and more. Many schools have full time paid
>> coaches, year round sailing conditions and top cabin competition.
>> Certainly the NW District sailing program is much better off in terms
>> of regatta scheduling and clinics that it was 5 years ago, but if
>> teams in the District HS do not continue to embrace a greater playing
>> field, then development of the program will falter.
>>>>>>>> If its about $$'s, then consider contacting your local yacht club for
>> sponsorship (even if they are not a member), contact the Sailing
>> Foundation (I bet they would be willing to sponsor a kid who finds
>> the
>>> cost of entry prohibitive) or better yet, put it in your HS Sailing
>> team budget.
>>>>>>>> Hope to see you all there. And if you need a boat to sail, let me or
>> Burke know, he has a trailer load of them.
>>>>>>>> Peter
>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-
>>bounces at myfleet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Trunkey, Steve - CKJH
>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 7:45 AM
>> To: DB; PNW_V15
>> Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form
>>>>>>>> I believe Matt is correct. Speaking for the Central Kitsap Team, I
>> would guess the difference would be somewhere between 0 and 6 boats
>> from our program. If it's expensive and requires membership in US
>> Sailing we likely won't be there. CK, like many of the high school
>> programs, is a community based program. We have kids from modest
>> upbringings that found even the $79 registration fee for 3 months of
> sailing expensive.
>> Some of these kids will catch the sailing fever, become successful
>> working adults, and eventually become leaders in the sailing
> community.
>> For now, we should be drawing them into the sport and making it
>> accessible.
>>>> As for the social ticket - it looks like a good deal for me
>> personally, but I'm not likely to take high school kids into the
>> typical yacht club social setting. We would race and head home and
>> eat from our brown bags.
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org>> <mailto:pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org> ] On Behalf Of hebardmf at myuw.net>> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 11:18 PM
>> To: Peter Shorett
>> Cc: pnw-v15 at myfleet.org>> Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form
>>>> Uhh, did we need to be members to US Sailing for SOCKS last year?
>> What
>>> about the CGRA One-Design? CYC Seattle One-Design? Turkey Bowl? If we
>> did, I guess I owe someone some $$.... But all that is beside the
> point.
>> Here's the real issue for "the fleet":
>>>> Can the V15 fleet get 6 boats/skippers registered, who are members of
>> US Sailing, prior to April 28th (after the 28th there is a $50 late
>> fee so it becomes ridiculously expensive then) WITHOUT having to rely
>> on High School Sailors to be some of the 6 boats? If the V15 fleet
>> can, then MAYBE the V15s will have there own start. Or, maybe V15s
>> will start with another fleet (Tasars) and be scored separately. If
>> the V15ers want to be assured their own start, we need 10 boats
>> registered. (This is all from the NOR, paragraph 3.2). So, try to
>> name
>>> 10 V15ers who will do this regatta WITHOUT relying on the High School
>> fleets (Orcas, Port Townsend, Central Kitsap, Bainbridge, Friday
> Harbor, Port Angeles)...
>>>> 1) Dean B.
>> 2) Peter S.
>> 3) Zig B.
>> 4)?
>> 5)?
>> 6)?
>> 7)?
>> 8)?
>> 9)?
>> 10)?
>>>> Kinda hard, isn't it? I like Dean's approach: make it cheaper,
>> somehow, for the High School kids. That may make it more likely a
>> fleet will form in time. I frankly, don't know how many High School
>> Sailors (i.e., those involved in the NWISA circuit) are members of US
>> Sailing. Maybe there are more than I know, but I doubt it. I do know
>> that it will be a tough sell to get some families to fork over $25
>> for
>>> the Youth US Sailing membership on top of an already hefty $75 entry
> fee for a TWO day event.
>> (Read the NOR, centerboard fleets are Sat. & Sun.).
>>>> This fleet relies on the High School crowd. We should advocate for
>> them as well.
>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: pnw-v15-bounces at myfleet.org [mailto:pnw-v15-
>>bounces at myfleet.org]
>> On Behalf Of DB
>> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 3:11 AM
>> To: PNW_V15
>> Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form
>>>> According to the NOR, and dialogs I've had with race organizers,
>> the 2
>>> day format from SOCKS was going to be retained for the centerboard
>> classes in order to facilitate HS sailor schedules. Only keelboats
>> would sail for 3 days. The fact that the prices don't reflect this
>> fact strikes me as an oversight.
>>>>>>>> Dean
>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Jim Lyle <jim at lylegroup.com>
>> To: DB <bergstro2 at yahoo.com>; PNW_V15 <pnw-v15 at myfleet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:10:47 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form
>>>> Dean,
>>>> I understand your concern. However, a youth US Sailing membership is
>> only $25 and only the skipper needs to apply. If the youth wants to
>> sail in any US Sailing championship, including the local Junior
>> Olympics in August they will need to be members. For a three day
>> event
>>> that makes the entry and membership $100. No one would complain about
>> 3 days of golf costing that much. It's certainly cheaper than 3 days
>> of snow boarding. I'm not sure how you give 2 day pricing for a 3 day
> event.
>>>> I'm not involved with planning the event at all. But 3 days on the
>> water is not cheap and then throw in social events and $33 a day
>> doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I find it hard to go out to dinner
>> for $33 per person these days.
>>>> I'm completely with you that cost is something we need to work on to
>> promote our sport. But I'm afraid the days of $25 regattas have
>> past -
>>> right along with gas under $2/gallon.
>>>> Jim Lyle
>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: DB <bergstro2 at yahoo.com>
>> To: PNW_V15 <pnw-v15 at myfleet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 12:45:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form
>>>> I would like to explore alternative pricing. I am drafting a letter
>> to the organizers expressing our concerns. I would like to offer
>> pricing alternatives. There are a few points that are particularly
> troublesome.
>>>> 1. US Sailing membership - At most regattas, US Sailing membership is
>> not mandatory and can be applied towards a discount for those with
>> membership. Here it works the other way around and introduces
>> considerable expense.
>> 2. 2 day pricing - It looks like the pricing schedule is for a 3 day
>> event.
>> 3. Youth pricing - I would like to see a discount for youth and HS
>> sailors.
>>>> I'm going to send it off tomorrow morning. If you have any
>> suggestions, I would like to hear them.
>>>> Dean
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: B&B Thomas <woodsong7 at centurytel.net>
>> To: hebardmf at myuw.net; DB <bergstro2 at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: PNW_V15 <pnw-v15 at myfleet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:09:19 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form
>>>> That kind of entry fee for a two day regatta will make it very
>> difficult for high school sailors to participate Burke
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <hebardmf at myuw.net>
>> To: "DB" <bergstro2 at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: "PNW_V15" <pnw-v15 at myfleet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Pnw-v15] Seattle NOOD Entry Form
>>>>>>> Hmm. So the regatta entry fee for me is $135.00 b/c I'm not a US
>> Sailing
>>> member....yet. Great.
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 22 Mar 2008, DB wrote:
>>>>>>> Attached is the entry form for the Seattle NOOD. Can't wait to see
>>>> everybody out there.
>>>>>>>> Dean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _____________________________________________________________________
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