<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=iso-8859-1"><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=iso-8859-1"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I support Chad's proposal to go to a flat one circle system.<div><br></div><div>But if nothing else, the rules for the start should be clarified and/or revised. As they stand now (at least as I read them), a boat that fouls near the middle of the start line may only be required to do one turn, but a boat that fouls closer to either end would have to do two. I think at the very least we should treat all start line fouls consistently.<div><br></div><div>Also, our current rules as written seem to require a two turn penalty for contact with a mark (Rule 31 violation), even if there is no right of way violation with respect to another boat (Part 2 violation). This is an increase in severity compared to the standard RRS. Is that intentional?</div><div><br></div><div>I've included the relevant part of the NOR/SI below.<br><div><br><div>Sam</div><div><br></div><div>-----</div><div><br></div><div><div>8 PENALTY SYSTEM</div><div><br></div><div>8.1 Competitors that commit a foul during a race shall exonerate themselves by taking a One-Turn Penalty (1 turn in same direction with 1 tack & 1 gybe) when three or more boat lengths from any mark. This changes rule 44.1 and 44.2. <i>[does this actually modify 44.2? looks like it just modifies 44.1 to me -sw]</i></div><div><br></div><div>8.2 If a foul is committed within the threeboat length circle of any mark, including the starting pin and race committee boat, a Two-Turn Penalty (2 turns in same direction with 2 tacks & 2 gybes) is required to exonerate a boat. This changes rule 44.1.</div></div><div><br><div><div>On Jun 13, 2013, at 10:28 AM, Chad Gray <<a href="mailto:chad.gray@gmail.com">chad.gray@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div dir="auto"><div>Section 8 of the NOR/SIs on the <a href="http://vanguard15.org/">Vanguard15.org</a> homepage seems to say 720 at any mark including starting pin. <a href="https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5-ubTdb22F3V3psNFRzLUNTcGc/preview?pli=1">https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5-ubTdb22F3V3psNFRzLUNTcGc/preview?pli=1</a> where are you seeing 360 at the start?</div><div><br></div><div>I would like to throw out there, however, the possibility of making it a one circle penalty in all cases. This would be a change to the fleet SIs so would obviously require discussion and general consensus.</div><div><br></div><div>My reasoning:</div><div>(1) Given the shortness of our races and compression of the fleet, a 360 is a pretty huge penalty, typically 3 to 5 places. That's a sufficient deterrent. A 720 is probably double that, or puts you so far back that the rest of the race is catch up</div><div>(2) We're struggling to get compliance with people accepting their penalties, and we clearly don't have a well functioning off the water protest system (though I wholeheartedly agree that we should). A 360 penalty is less severe, and therefore less likely to be ignored entirely</div><div>(3) There is always confusion about whether it's one or two circles, whether you're at 4-3-2 boat lengths, whether the guy spinning did one or two circles etc... Are you spinning for a foul or a hit mark? A flat one circle would be simpler.</div><div><br></div><div>I'm not suggesting that we water down the rules just because people refuse to follow them, just that we should reconsider the 2 circle penalty and decide whether that makes sense for our racing format and level of seriousness</div><div><br></div><div>Chad</div><div><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On Jun 13, 2013, at 9:13 AM, Madeline Eustis <<a href="mailto:mfeustis@gmail.com">mfeustis@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>Small question/possible correction:<br><br></div>My reading of the SIs indicates that fouls at marks and finish mandate a 720, whereas all other fouls (including the start) are only a 360.<br>
<br></div>Comments?<br><br></div>Maddy<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Claire Hulse <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:claire.hulse@gmail.com" target="_blank">claire.hulse@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Fleet:<div><br></div><div>I think we can all agree that it's best to
resolve any differences on the water by spinning circles when you foul
(reminder: 2 circles for fouls at a mark or start/finish, 1 circle
elsewhere). </div>
<div><br></div><div>That said, the scorers / co-chairs have been hearing
grumbling / pleading when entering scores about how some boats
aren't spinning when fouling. </div><div><br></div><div>Instead of
pleading your case while we're entering scores, <b>please consider using
the 3 min justice system, and reporting the results to the scorers /
co-chairs</b>. This is a good explanation of 3 min justice: <a href="http://www.sailingeducation.com/3minute.htm" target="_blank">http://www.sailingeducation.com/3minute.htm.</a>
To avoid burdening the fleet with too much procedure and formality,
this is the ONLY mechanism for resolving penalties off the water (other
than voluntarily withdrawing from a race). We will amend the SIs to
reflect this long-standing fleet practice. <br>
</div><div><div><br></div><div>Relatedly, if you help out with a rescue or drive a
rescue boat (see the SIs), please let the scorers know which races you
assisted in. </div><div><br></div></div><div>Yours in the Corinthian spirit,</div>
<div><br>Claire<br></div>Thurs Night Co-Chair<div><div><object data="cid:" type="application/x-apple-msg-attachment"></object><br></div><div>and <br><br>Steve<br></div><div>Tues Night Co-Chair<br></div></div></div>
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