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I like the Scombridae idea, and let's think about taking in both the
folks who want to sail and the folks who might just want to come to a
picnic. I'm not sure, but I think there are a number of areas on TI
where there are picnic tables or places to congregate -- not necessarily
right near the docks, but within walking distance. How about trying
to organize a get together where those who might want to drive over and
have a picnic can come and those who want to sail that day can get there
as well? <br><br>
As far as white sails races go, I strongly believe we need to keep a good
white sails series going. The Islander 36 fleet was dead until they
resurrected themselves as a non-spinnaker fleet. I think this is
true of many older boats. <br><br>
At 08:51 PM 8/16/2007, Jan Grygier and Patti Boucher wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Hi, me again.<br>
I don't know why I forgot about Rites of Spring, it's a great event
(shorthanded in mid-March) and we had lots of sign-ups, good
participation last couple years - but I think it is best to keep it white
sails only to let the less experienced folks get their feet wet at the
start of the season.<br>
<br>
I think the potential races have multiple characteristics that we like or
not: buoy vs. long distance; party vs. none; out the gate vs. in-bay;
included in YRA fee vs. extra fee; normally windy vs. often
windless. The "included in YRA" has been one reason I
voted for Knox/Bonita, but if the boats won't come it ain't worth
it.<br>
<br>
I've never made 3-bridge fiasco but it seems to be pretty popular,
perhaps we should think about including that one. If we added it to
Pete's list we'd be back to 7 races with (I'd recommend) 2 throwouts,
remember Vallejo goes both ways.<br>
<br>
Or Wheeler is another option, we haven't had any luck getting folks to
come out to any winter once-a-month series. Wheeler is one weekend
at the end of March, Big Daddy one weekend near the beginning, I guess we
gotta choose cos two regattas plus one shorthanded in March is too
much.<br>
<br>
Jan "Carlos" Grygier<br>
P.S. Just had another thought - how about combining our annual picnic
with our last Scombridae Sunday on Sep 23, i.e. hold it at TI and have a
big potluck on the beach or docks? Or do folks want to find another
weekend to go to Angel Island as we have normally done?<br>
<dl>
<dd>----- Original Message ----- <br>
<dd>From:</b> <a href="mailto:broderic@sonic.net">Nancy & Pat
Broderick</a> <br>
<dd>To: </b><a href="mailto:pete@tolachi.com">Pete Trachy</a> <br>
<dd>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:tuna@myfleet.org">List Satanna 22</a><br>
<dd>Sent:</b> 8/16/2007 11:50:44 AM <br>
<dd>Subject:</b> Re: [Santana 22] 2008 Spinnaker Series<br><br>
<dd><font size=2>Pete, <br><br>
<dd>While I think a Santana 22 is a wonderful little boat, it is not an
Express 27 or Moore 24. <br><br>
<dd>Pat<br><br>
<dd>On Aug 16, 2007, at 11:30 AM, Pete Trachy wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">
<dd>Double Handed Lightship:<br><br>
<dd>My thought on the spinnaker series was that it would attract the more
experienced members of our fleet. Many of them already do some
short handed sailing and have ocean racing experience. When I did
the DH lightship it seemed like a very appropriate race for the Santana
22. We almost had a one design start with the boats entered.
Granted there are days out there when I would turn around and not finish
the race. However, the same can be said for Knox/Bonita and it
didn't seem to be an issue for that race to be on our schedule. I
also would like to point out that both the express 27 and moore 24
classes have very sucessfully included doublehanded racing in their main
fleet series. Both fleets see large turnouts for the 3 bridge and
the double handed farallones. As a class I believe we have a
responsibility to educate less knowledgeable and experienced
members. However, I think that we also have to recognize them as
adults who can make their own decisions. <br><br>
<dd>Anyway, given our showing last year I would be disappointed not to
see it included. I will advocate for it, but if the people taking
part in a spinnaker series do not want to see the race included I can
live with that. <br><br>
<dd>Knox/Bonita:<br><br>
<dd>I am personally against including this race as only 3 boats showed up
for it the last time I did it. It was right in the middle of our
white sails series if I remember correctly. I feel that is part of
what led to light turnout and it is why I have deliberately chosen races
that are not at the same time as any of our ODCA races. This year
Knox/Bonita will the be held on the same day as our season closer.
I think this is a great race, but the timing is problematic and I do not
think it should be considered for the series. <br><br>
<dd>Big Daddy:<br><br>
<dd>I thought this was a great opportunity to get in some close one
design spinnaker racing. The fleet has turned out well for th
X¿!x*(ÿÿÿÿlZb e pumpkin in the past, and I thought this race made sense
as well. If we don't include the big daddy, I would like to see
some other event with multiple races included to keep the series balanced
between longer distance races and round the buoys action. The
wheeler regatta is one option. <br><br>
<dd>2nd Half Opener:<br><br>
<dd>Not my favorite race, but I could be convinced include it and even
show up. it would be nice to have something happening in
July. We seem to have had good turnout historically. One
additional concern is that it seems Nationals might be within one weekend
of it next year, if not a direct conflict. <br><br>
<dd>Throwouts:<br><br>
<dd>Perhaps we should have 5 races in the series and give one
throwout? That would let everyone skip there least favorite race
and give a little more flexibility for the inevitable scheduling
conflict. <br><br>
<dd>With that in mind I would propose:<br><br>
</font>
<dd><font size=2 color="#0000FF">Big Daddy (course racing on Saturday
only)<br>
<dd>Double Handed Lightship<br>
<dd>Vallejo Race<br>
<dd>2nd Half Opener (distance race on Saturday only)<br>
<dd>Great Pumpkin (course racing on Saturday only)<br>
</font><br><br>
<dd>With regards to what pat said about the light turnout. I feel
that in order to make this happen we really do need a minimum of 5 boats
on the line. i think that if a race is going to attract less than 5
it should be canceled. Hopefully this would put the screws on
people to really be serious about their commitment to show up or
not. I'm open to other ideas here, but I really hated showing up to
race against 1 or 2 other boats last year. <br><br>
<dd>I like the idea of a shorthanded series, but am personally not
willing to put it together. From prior experiences fleet moral
suffers when people are spread too thin and turnout is low. I'd
like to see a successful spinnaker series before I extended to try to put
together an additional even. However, I would certainly support
anybody who wanted to take it on themself. it is something that tom
mcintyre and tom montoya over in alameda might be interested in.
<br><br>
<dd>Pete<br><br>
<br>
<dd>On 8/16/07, Nancy & Pat Broderick</b>
<<a href="mailto:broderic@sonic.net">broderic@sonic.net</a>> wrote:
<br>
<dl>
<dd>Michael,<br><br>
<dd>There are several other races that are not SSS which might be<br>
<dd>interesting and very possible doublehanded possibilities in our
boats:<br><br>
<dd>1. Rites of Spring. Some Santanas
already sail this OYC early-in-the <br>
<dd>season doublehanded race - usually in March.<br>
<dd>2. Jazz Cup. One-way trip
on Labor Day to Benecia. Much like the<br>
<dd>Vallejo races; you just don't turn left into the Mare
Island Strait.<br><br>
<dd>However, I'm reluctant to get too much on the racing table.
While a <br>
<dd>lot of boats have signed up for this year's YRA series, only a
few<br>
<dd>show up to race. Last year the Santanas barely made the
5-boat<br>
<dd>minimum to stay qualified for YRA One Design racing. It isn't
the<br>
<dd>number of boats that sign up initially; it's the number that sail 50%
<br>
<dd>or more of the fleet-scheduled YRA Championship races the
fleet's<br>
<dd>signed up for. That's how a boat "qualifies" and YRA
requires a<br>
<dd>minimum of 5 boats "qualifying" in order be a One Design
Fleet. I <br>
<dd>don't think this 5-boat "qualified" requirement is
clearly<br>
<dd>understood. It isn't the number who sign up; it's the number
that<br>
<dd>actually race.<br><br>
<dd>YRA is talking about setting up an HDA "small boat"
division that <br>
<dd>would compete on ODCA closed course (round the buoys) races in
order<br>
<dd>to keep older 22 - 27 (Ranger 23 through something like Catalina
27)<br>
<dd>foot boats sailing in YRA. If the Santanas don't
"qualify" 5 boats, <br>
<dd>that's probably where they'll end up if they want to sail YRA
races.<br><br>
<dd>It's similar to what ODCA has done for the "heavy 30s" -
Newport 30,<br>
<dd>Cal 29, Cat 30 (PHRF 180) fleets whose participation fell below
the <br>
<dd>minimum 5-boat requirement. The HDA has the "SF
X¿!x*(ÿÿÿÿlZb 30 Fleet" that<br>
<dd>provides the same thing for boats rating around PHRF 135.<br><br>
<dd>Often the Santana spinnaker races are also very light. While
these<br>
<dd>races don't count either toward the YRA Championship (the Santana 22
<br>
<dd>"white sail" races) nor toward "qualifying" for
YRA purposes (only<br>
<dd>races counted toward YRA championship points count), Race
Committees<br>
<dd>are understandably upset when only one or two - or none - show up to
<br>
<dd>race - either for white sail or spinnaker races.<br><br>
<dd>Pat<br><br>
<br><br>
<dd>On Aug 16, 2007, at 9:26 AM, Michael Andrews - MTC wrote:<br><br>
<dd>> Really good input Pat. I wasn't aware that there were so
many<br>
<dd>> opportunities to race short handed in the Bay but, now knowing
there <br>
<dd>> are, I would like to see a short handed series made up of
just<br>
<dd>> those in<br>
<dd>> the Bay races.<br>
<dd>><br>
<dd>> Michael<br><br>
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