Wanted to thank everyone who took the time to respond to my latest query. You've all given me plenty to think about.
Thanks,
Keay Edwards
408-482-9701
keay at keay3.net
--- On Mon, 11/29/10, tuna-request at myfleet.org <tuna-request at myfleet.org> wrote:
> From: tuna-request at myfleet.org <tuna-request at myfleet.org>
> Subject: Tuna Digest, Vol 65, Issue 1
> To: tuna at myfleet.org> Date: Monday, November 29, 2010, 9:13 PM
> Send Tuna mailing list submissions
> to
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>>> Today's Topics:
>> 1. More questions (Keay Edwards)
> 2. Re: More questions (Nancy & Pat
> Broderick)
> 3. Re: More questions (Michael Kennedy)
> 4. Re: More questions (tmc664 at comcast.net)
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 16:47:55 -0800 (PST)
> From: Keay Edwards <keay at keay3.net>
> Subject: [Santana 22] More questions
> To: tuna at myfleet.org> Message-ID: <917241.25253.qm at web1211.biz.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> All,
>> I have been running over in my head how I can do better in
> my next mid-winters race. I made several errors in
> both the start as well as my sail trim. I know I turn
> to you guys, maybe a little too often, for information, but
> hope you might still pass along any thoughts you might have
> on a diagram I have posted to my santana page.
>> Thanks Much,
>> Keay
>>http://keay3.blogspot.com/2010/11/stratageecal-thinking.html>>> ------------------------------
>> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 17:45:32 -0800
> From: Nancy & Pat Broderick <broderic at sonic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Santana 22] More questions
> To: keay at keay3.net> Cc: tuna at myfleet.org> Message-ID: <CC6471B5-3D83-4242-A700-12AC2D095507 at sonic.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes;
> format=flowed
>> Keay,
>> Starting is probably the most difficult part of
> racing. It's usually
> the most crowded, it calls for timing, get your race off to
> a decent
> start - or it screws things up so badly that you can't
> concentrate on
> the first leg. Here are some ideas based on your
> diagram.
>> A lot depends on what kind of boats. If it's One Design
> Santana 22,
> they should all be moving and pointing about the
> same. If it's PHRF
> Start with mixed boats, there will be different speeds and
> angles of
> sail.
>> How the line is set also comes into play. The
> "closest" end might
> not be the "best" end. Prior to "Warning" get your
> boat in the
> middle of the line and come head to wind. If the bow
> points directly
> at the next mark, the RC has done its job. If the bow
> points at an
> angle to the next mark, one side of the course is favored
> since a
> beat up that side will bring you closer to the mark since
> you're
> sailing "higher" on that tack.
>> If the line is set square to the wind, each tack up to the
> first mark
> should be equal. Of course in SF Bay you also have to take
> into
> account the current and what it's doing, but equal tacks is
> the theory.
>> In a mixed fleet, Tunas are often the small boat, with
> shorter masts,
> so it's easy to get blanketed by the larger boats, who are
> often
> moving faster since they're bigger. The pack at the
> committee boat/
> favored end of the line is not a good place to be small and
> slow.
>> 1. A port-tack start is very tricky if
> the line is set square to the
> wind. You'll encounter all the other boats right at
> the Start Line
> and have to duck them all - bad air, sailing low, end up to
> windward
> of the entire fleet. It looks like that's
> what you did in this race.
>> If the line isn't set squarely, you might be able to "port
> tack" the
> fleet and cross in front of them since you'd be sailing
> higher than
> boats starting on starboard. Or, if the fleet is
> mixed, you might be
> able to sail through "holes" at the starboard boats spread
> out.
>> Talk with Frank or Cathy about doing that on the Knox
> Course when the
> line is set badly and there's a heavy flood current!
>> 2. If the line is set square, and if the
> line really is as long as
> you say, and if the starters all bunch up at the committee
> boat end
> of the line, you might want to pick a "hole" part way down
> the line
> instead of joining the pack and getting blanketed by their
> sails.
> Run along the line a few yards back, being careful about
> leeward
> boats, pick a hole just before the gun, and get a good
> clean Start.
> Tack to Port when things there's a clear path if the right
> side is
> the favored side.
>> 3. Another way is to latch on to a boat
> that's about your size/speed
> that you think does well. Check results of the
> previous races.
> Follow them around, trailing them by a few yards. It will
> drive them
> crazy, but if you pay attention to what they do in the
> pre-start and
> Start you can learn.
>> Pat Broderick
> ex-Tuner
>>>>> On Nov 29, 2010, at 4:47 PM, Keay Edwards wrote:
>> > All,
> >
> > I have been running over in my head how I can do
> better in my next
> > mid-winters race. I made several errors in both
> the start as well
> > as my sail trim. I know I turn to you guys,
> maybe a little too
> > often, for information, but hope you might still pass
> along any
> > thoughts you might have on a diagram I have posted to
> my santana page.
> >
> > Thanks Much,
> >
> > Keay
> >
> > http://keay3.blogspot.com/2010/11/stratageecal-thinking.html> > _______________________________________________
> > Tuna mailing list
> > Tuna at myfleet.org> > http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/tuna> >
>>>> ------------------------------
>> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 18:34:57 -0800 (PST)
> From: Michael Kennedy <michaelkennedy05 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Santana 22] More questions
> To: keay at keay3.net> Cc: tuna at myfleet.org> Message-ID: <358901.29204.qm at web82703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> Hi Keay
> I (mostly) agree with Pat.? A port tack start is very high
> risk-high reward, and
> the pin end has to be pretty favored and you have to hit
> the line going full
> speed to clear everyone.? Even the pros pull that off maybe
> once a season and
> remember it fondly....
>> Determining the favored end of the line is important BUT
> keep in mind that
> everyone else should be doing the same thing.? So, if one
> end is favored by 10
> degrees or more, there is likely to be a big clump of boats
> at that end.?
> Tactically, I think it's much better to be away from the
> pack.? Clear air, with
> no one above you giving you dirty air, and no one below
> yoyu so you can put the
> bow down and accelerate when you want, is much better than
> being in a big clump
> of boats at the favored end.
>> >From your diagram (recognizing that it's not to scale),
> it may have been a good
> move to tack to leeward of the pack-from there you control
> your own destiny.?
> Before the gun you can luff anyone above you who threatens
> to roll over you, and
> you have plenty of space below you, so just before the gun
> you can put the bow
> down and accelerate.? One general principal to keep in
> mind-if there is a boat
> or pack of boats approaching on the other takc that you
> won't cross, you're
> usually better off tacking to leeward of them.? You keep
> clear air and maintain
> the chance to cross them later.? If you cross behind
> someone, you've
> consolidated your loss rather than keeping the chance of
> maybe crossing ahead
> later.? There was a very good article about this in Sailing
> World recently-when
> you want to tack to leeward vs when you want to cross
> behind to the other side
> of the course, depending on how far up the course you are
> (i.e. the closer to
> the mark you are, the fewer tacks there are in your future,
> and the more you
> want to get to the right to have starboard advantage).
>> The main thing at the start is to be on the line going full
> speed with clear
> air.? That takes good knowledge of your boat's acceleration
> and an ability to
> judge how quickly it will cover the distance to the line.?
> A good drill is to
> sail past bouys when you're out sailing, both maintaining
> speed and starting
> from a dead stop.? From some distance away, guess how
> quickly you'll pass the
> bouy, and then time yourself.? For example, on the way to
> the start as you pass
> then channel markers, look for a bouy 25 yards away and
> guess how long till you
> pass it.? Look at your watch and see you you did as you go
> by.? You can even do
> this motoring, just to guage the time and distance.? Then
> get used to timing how
> fast your boat accelerates from a tack, or a dead stop.?
> I'd say the ability to
> judge that is the #1 skill to good starts.? Then, when
> you're actually on the
> line, be going fast with as much room around you as you can
> manage, for maximum
> clear air and as many options as possible.? Then just sail
> clean and fast for
> the first couple minutes, and you'll find that half the
> fleet was sailing in bad
> air, or had to ytack 2-3 times while you were going fast,
> and then you're at
> least in the top half or third of the fleet on the first
> beat, just for having
> stayed out of traffic.
>> Good luck this weekend-have fun
> Mike Kennedy
> Pariah #146
>> ?
>>>> ________________________________
> From: Nancy & Pat Broderick <broderic at sonic.net>
> To: keay at keay3.net> Cc: tuna at myfleet.org> Sent: Mon, November 29, 2010 5:45:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [Santana 22] More questions
>> Keay,
>> Starting is probably the most difficult part of racing.?
> It's usually?
> the most crowded, it calls for timing, get your race off to
> a decent?
> start - or it screws things up so badly that you can't
> concentrate on?
> the first leg.? Here are some ideas based on your diagram.
>> A lot depends on what kind of boats. If it's One Design
> Santana 22,?
> they should all be moving and pointing about the same.? If
> it's PHRF?
> Start with mixed boats, there will be different speeds and
> angles of?
> sail.
>> How the line is set also comes into play.? The "closest"
> end might?
> not be the "best" end.? Prior to "Warning" get your boat in
> the?
> middle of the line and come head to wind.? If the bow
> points directly?
> at the next mark, the RC has done its job. If the bow
> points at an?
> angle to the next mark, one side of the course is favored
> since a?
> beat up that side will bring you closer to the mark since
> you're?
> sailing "higher" on that tack.
>> If the line is set square to the wind, each tack up to the
> first mark?
> should be equal. Of course in SF Bay you also have to take
> into?
> account the current and what it's doing, but equal tacks is
> the theory.
>> In a mixed fleet, Tunas are often the small boat, with
> shorter masts,?
> so it's easy to get blanketed by the larger boats, who are
> often?
> moving faster since they're bigger.? The pack at the
> committee boat/
> favored end of the line is not a good place to be small and
> slow.
>> 1.??? A port-tack start is very tricky if the line is set
> square to the?
> wind.? You'll encounter all the other boats right at the
> Start Line?
> and have to duck them all - bad air, sailing low, end up to
> windward?
> of the entire fleet.? It looks like that's what you did in
> this race.
>> If the line isn't set squarely, you might be able to "port
> tack" the?
> fleet and cross in front of them since you'd be sailing
> higher than?
> boats starting on starboard.? Or, if the fleet is mixed,
> you might be?
> able to sail through "holes" at the starboard boats spread
> out.
>> Talk with Frank or Cathy about doing that on the Knox
> Course when the?
> line is set badly and there's a heavy flood current!
>> 2.??? If the line is set square, and if the line really is
> as long as?
> you say, and if the starters all bunch up at the committee
> boat end?
> of the line, you might want to pick a "hole" part way down
> the line?
> instead of joining the pack and getting blanketed by their
> sails.?
> Run along the line a few yards back, being careful about
> leeward?
> boats, pick a hole just before the gun, and get a good
> clean Start.?
> Tack to Port when things there's a clear path if the right
> side is?
> the favored side.
>> 3.??? Another way is to latch on to a boat that's about
> your size/speed?
> that you think does well.? Check results of the previous
> races.?
> Follow them around, trailing them by a few yards. It will
> drive them?
> crazy, but if you pay attention to what they do in the
> pre-start and?
> Start you can learn.
>> Pat Broderick
> ex-Tuner
>>>>> On Nov 29, 2010, at 4:47 PM, Keay Edwards wrote:
>> > All,
> >
> > I have been running over in my head how I can do
> better in my next?
> > mid-winters race.? I made several errors in both the
> start as well?
> > as my sail trim.? I know I turn to you guys, maybe a
> little too?
> > often, for information, but hope you might still pass
> along any?
> > thoughts you might have on a diagram I have posted to
> my santana page.
> >
> > Thanks Much,
> >
> > Keay
> >
> > http://keay3.blogspot.com/2010/11/stratageecal-thinking.html> > _______________________________________________
> > Tuna mailing list
> > Tuna at myfleet.org> > http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/tuna> >
>> _______________________________________________
> Tuna mailing list
>Tuna at myfleet.org>http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/tuna>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 05:18:44 +0000 (UTC)
> From: tmc664 at comcast.net> Subject: Re: [Santana 22] More questions
> To: keay at keay3.net> Cc: "Satanna 22, List" <tuna at myfleet.org>
> Message-ID:
> <838177558.1729613.1291094324765.JavaMail.root at sz0092a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>> Keay
>> I just checked your race results and you are the
> smallest/slowest (in theor y) boat out there. Pat and
> Michael have done a good job of describing the pitfalls of
> port starts. Imo with that fleet you should strive for
> hitting the line on time and at speed.?Even if you nail the
> coveted? favored end the fleet will roll you so you need to
> go for CLEAN AIR .? Remember low and fast will get you to
> the mark faster than high and slow. I just live up the road
> from Sequoia YC and if I can get away for your next race
> I'll let you know. Perhaps you can find room for me and I'll
> try to morph some of?my limited experience on you.
>> Cheers
>> Tom McIntyre
>> Spitfire #802
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Keay Edwards" <keay at keay3.net>
>> To: tuna at myfleet.org>> Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 4:47:55 PM
> Subject: [Santana 22] More questions
>> All,
>> I have been running over in my head how I can do better in
> my next mid-winters race. ?I made several errors in both the
> start as well as my sail trim. ?I know I turn to you guys,
> maybe a little too often, for information, but hope you
> might still pass along any thoughts you might have on a
> diagram I have posted to my santana page.
>> Thanks Much,
>> Keay
>>http://keay3.blogspot.com/2010/11/stratageecal-thinking.html>> _______________________________________________
> Tuna mailing list
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>Tuna at myfleet.org>http://myfleet.org/mailman/listinfo/tuna>>> End of Tuna Digest, Vol 65, Issue 1
> ***********************************
>
