I support Chad's proposal to go to a flat one circle system.
But if nothing else, the rules for the start should be clarified and/or revised. As they stand now (at least as I read them), a boat that fouls near the middle of the start line may only be required to do one turn, but a boat that fouls closer to either end would have to do two. I think at the very least we should treat all start line fouls consistently.
Also, our current rules as written seem to require a two turn penalty for contact with a mark (Rule 31 violation), even if there is no right of way violation with respect to another boat (Part 2 violation). This is an increase in severity compared to the standard RRS. Is that intentional?
I've included the relevant part of the NOR/SI below.
Sam
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8 PENALTY SYSTEM
8.1 Competitors that commit a foul during a race shall exonerate themselves by taking a One-Turn Penalty (1 turn in same direction with 1 tack & 1 gybe) when three or more boat lengths from any mark. This changes rule 44.1 and 44.2. [does this actually modify 44.2? looks like it just modifies 44.1 to me -sw]
8.2 If a foul is committed within the threeboat length circle of any mark, including the starting pin and race committee boat, a Two-Turn Penalty (2 turns in same direction with 2 tacks & 2 gybes) is required to exonerate a boat. This changes rule 44.1.
On Jun 13, 2013, at 10:28 AM, Chad Gray <chad.gray at gmail.com> wrote:
> Section 8 of the NOR/SIs on the Vanguard15.org homepage seems to say 720 at any mark including starting pin. https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5-ubTdb22F3V3psNFRzLUNTcGc/preview?pli=1 where are you seeing 360 at the start?
>> I would like to throw out there, however, the possibility of making it a one circle penalty in all cases. This would be a change to the fleet SIs so would obviously require discussion and general consensus.
>> My reasoning:
> (1) Given the shortness of our races and compression of the fleet, a 360 is a pretty huge penalty, typically 3 to 5 places. That's a sufficient deterrent. A 720 is probably double that, or puts you so far back that the rest of the race is catch up
> (2) We're struggling to get compliance with people accepting their penalties, and we clearly don't have a well functioning off the water protest system (though I wholeheartedly agree that we should). A 360 penalty is less severe, and therefore less likely to be ignored entirely
> (3) There is always confusion about whether it's one or two circles, whether you're at 4-3-2 boat lengths, whether the guy spinning did one or two circles etc... Are you spinning for a foul or a hit mark? A flat one circle would be simpler.
>> I'm not suggesting that we water down the rules just because people refuse to follow them, just that we should reconsider the 2 circle penalty and decide whether that makes sense for our racing format and level of seriousness
>> Chad
>> Sent from my iPad
>> On Jun 13, 2013, at 9:13 AM, Madeline Eustis <mfeustis at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Small question/possible correction:
>>>> My reading of the SIs indicates that fouls at marks and finish mandate a 720, whereas all other fouls (including the start) are only a 360.
>>>> Comments?
>>>> Maddy
>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 9:06 AM, Claire Hulse <claire.hulse at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Fleet:
>>>> I think we can all agree that it's best to resolve any differences on the water by spinning circles when you foul (reminder: 2 circles for fouls at a mark or start/finish, 1 circle elsewhere).
>>>> That said, the scorers / co-chairs have been hearing grumbling / pleading when entering scores about how some boats aren't spinning when fouling.
>>>> Instead of pleading your case while we're entering scores, please consider using the 3 min justice system, and reporting the results to the scorers / co-chairs. This is a good explanation of 3 min justice: http://www.sailingeducation.com/3minute.htm. To avoid burdening the fleet with too much procedure and formality, this is the ONLY mechanism for resolving penalties off the water (other than voluntarily withdrawing from a race). We will amend the SIs to reflect this long-standing fleet practice.
>>>> Relatedly, if you help out with a rescue or drive a rescue boat (see the SIs), please let the scorers know which races you assisted in.
>>>> Yours in the Corinthian spirit,
>>>> Claire
>> Thurs Night Co-Chair
>>>> and
>>>> Steve
>> Tues Night Co-Chair
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